The unending thread drifted onto the topic of cooking…but as usual, all the threads here always revolve around arguments. Then I realized that every thread is just another Abbott and Costello routine.
(Current totals: 10,234 entries with 996,226 comments)
More like this
Old thread cleansed with flamethrowers and bazookas; a new nest emerges!
(Current totals: 10,075 entries with 973,299 comments)
Look up, all you denizens of the twisty little thread, and think about…astrobiology!
(Current totals: 11,637 entries with 1,234,909 comments.)
Yeesh, you've dragged me onto the internet to update the nagging thread again, despite the work piled up around me and the ickiness I'm feeling from all these new meds I'm soaking in.
Now back to recuperating and writing.
(Current totals: 10,918 entries with 1,108,155 comments.)
I had my own little prediction about what would happen in the recent split: I expected the HATE thread would start off with a surge and burn out early, while the LOVE thread would end up with the most comments by endurance. Boy, was I wrong. The two threads were neck-and-neck in commenting…
Pardon my mess. . . testing a text formatting toolbar.
This is not.
This is bold.
This is italic.
This is a link to cephalopod eating a lady.
And this little piggy cried wee, wee, wee all the way home.
Oh FSM this show is stupid. I'm waiting for Mythbusters, and the show right before it is all spooky paranormal stuff.
Antiochus @#496: Sadly, I have finals in two weeks, so no cocktails or other intoxicating beverages for me for a while. :-(
(And I shouldn't be spending so much time posting here either...)
But good food is something I've recently learned to appreciate. In addition to the joy of cooking, I find my brain works better when I'm eating decent home-cooked food with a proper nutritional balance.
Bwahahahaha! Even better than the attack ad against Bradley Byrne. :-D :-D :-D :-D
One day I will visit Alabama and see where all this weirdness grows.
The science threads are becoming more common again :-) :-) :-)
Walton, was your belief evidence-based (as in: you once tried to cook something and failed spectacularly, filling the entire building with black smoke or something), or was it just circular logic (as in: you had never tried and believed experience is necessary), or was it really toxic masculinity at work (as in: you had never tried and didn't bother because manly men aren't good at it anyway)?
Josh - As someone older, and perhaps wiser, let me advise you that if you are going wee, wee, wee, all the way home, you are in the wrong place.
Get in the back seat, and you can go whee, whee, WHEE!!!, all the way home.
*This slutty tip brought to you free of charge by
OM Gawd Travels*
I'm not surprised.
And now please start an experiment on whether adding some sleep to the equation leads to even better results. At the same time and a timezone to the east, I'll try the same; I'm still capable of continuing to turn my old notes into an appendix for a manuscript, but... just barely.
(That's right. I start writing the paper by writing the appendix. I don't think even the intended journal would accept that bloated, boring list as part of the methods section, no matter how much dry insider sarcasm I manage to put in.)
@ Patricia:
Yay, you showed up! Can haz spankun' miss? Pleez?
Girl, we miss you. How you doin? How's naughty Marvin?
Walton (or anyone else) -
I'll email you some of my recipe collections if you want. I put together some favorites as family Christmas presents last year. It's sort of a mix of American comfort food, with a few more sophisticated recipes thrown in (the Pharyngula Cookbook will, of course, be top-shelf, considering the contributions).
If you wantz, email spokesgay at gmail.
I start writing the paper by writing the appendix.
and here I thought I was the only one to do that.
huh.
Josh, Official SpokesGay #501
I was sure you were going to link to this picture. (NSFW)
That's Hokusaki, who's better known for his set of 46 paintings called 36 Views of Mt. Fuji. These paintings are completely SFW.
seriously, I find i have a regular pattern I engage in when writing papers:
appendix
bibliography
methods
results
introduction
discussion
I tend to think I leave the sections that require the most thinking till last.
:P
Josh - No, sorry, you may not. The spanking couch is currently being re-upholstered in leather, and having the horse hair stuffing doubled. Three of the six dragon clawed feet have to be replaced, but it should be back in action by Sunday.... are you sure you want to know how Naughty Marvin is? *smirk*
Patricia, we've got the millionth comment for PZ's blog coming up in a couple of days. Get ready for the big blow-out. Have Marvin help with the saloon. I've laid in a store of grog supplies (the first batch is starting to fume as we speak) and bacon.
Cooking....
It would be a shame to end the thread on the same note which is started, but I love to cook. And if I can learn to cook, anyone can.
I draw distinctions between three types of cooking though, and I'm certain that other people make other differentiations.
There is:
Cooking; i.e stove top/microwave/casseroles.
Baking; bread, cookies, cakes,scones and the like.
and Grilling; raw meat on an open flame.
While I enjoy all three, the one which allows the me the greatest creativity is straight-up stove-top cooking. I know there are bakers out there who can be very creative with tastes and forms, but not I. To bake I have to follow a recipe. The only creativity allowed is what sort of filling or the perennial nuts/currents/raisins/chocolate chip question.
But give me a saute pan, and watch out.
My specialty is what I and the fiancee call a 'mess'. It consists of rummaging through the cupboards and freezer, finding a few ingredients, and frying them up. They are often not too pretty, but they can be tasty. Last week I coated some some pork chops with a little salt, pepper and sage, then sauted them with some apples. Served with some microwaved peas, and it was delicious.
The upside is that it's fun and creative to cook. The downside is that I don't really have any recipes, only results. So it's hard to share.
I will, on the other hand, pass along a little secret from Alton Brown (like it's a secret). For meat that is going into a chili or stew that you want to remain firm during cooking, cook it first at around 200 degrees for an hour or two, then cool it down. I usually refrigerate it or put it in the freezer for a bit. Then, as long as your soup or stew doesn't get too hot, it will stay firm. What happens is that some of the muscle fibers, when cooled, turn into gelatin. The gelatin has a much higher breakdown point than the original tissue so the meat doesn't break apart when recooked. It works best on larger chunks, but I've used it with success on pulled meats like turkey.
And Walton, your recipe looks good. I'm intrigued by the coriander leaf. I would never have thought to throw cilantro into the mix, but it sounds tasty. I bet it compliments the lentils and chickpeas nicely. I'll have to give it a try sometime. Thanks for the idea.
I suspect you would(? will, in 4 weeks today !!!) categorize me as manly man, although not of the John Wayne variety.
But not for a day in my 4 year marriage did ex prepare a single meal, love cooking(although not too keen on the whole swapping recipes online thing), love trying stuff, baking bread, the whole thing.
Actually, argument from random observations, I think whether a guy will cook/be interested in helping in the kitchen etc might depend on religious background, jewish and muslim men, forget it, pure stone age mentality, "Neanderthals", as one of my female colleagues calls them.
@'Tis:
Oh, I know that picture, you dirty boy. If I meant to link to a picture of an octopus eating a lady out, I would have. Now pay attention!
Well, I don't rightly know, ma'am. It's just. . aw shucks (bats eyelashes and holds hands protectively over backside). . .
That's it, it's 3 am, and I made an almost inconsequential but stupid mistake. And I'm supposed to be in the bank tomorrow at noon, only 9 hours from now. I'm going to bed... and won't even get an entire night's sleep. <sigh>
Oh, cry me a fuckin' river! I'm lucky if I get six. Not that that's optimal, just saying.
No, Josh, the tortureshorts are not for you, just for sufferers from severe TinglyBall Disease. What you want to play is "fondle my malabrigio" (a cult merino yarn from South America). My knitting group can get a bit raunchy in tone when the malabrigio comes out. (That and when discussing things that can be made with lathes.)
@ Buffybot - I'm not going to comb the wool for the tortureshorts, so hopefully there'll be bits of itchy hay and some burrs in there to assist the wooly irritation.
Gasp! Oh noooeez. Girl, you're deep into it. I think we need an intervention up in here.
Didn't want to make it sound like I wouldn't help in the kitchen. I like to clean much more than cook. I'm into folding laundry and ironing too.
While we are talking domestic, let me tell you all how I fsked up my shower drain yesterday. It has been draining slowly and the Liquid Plumber isn't helping. So, I opened up the stopper and started to snake the thing out. It was full of some white gravelly stuff, which I discovered was probably calcium...a little chunk dissolved quickly in a little white vinegar, so I figured what the hell, I'll dump a gallon of vinegar into the thing, come back in a few hours and take a shower. I think that vinegar dissolved enough of the calcium to carry it deeper into the pipe, and then as the vinegar mixed with water, the lime came out of solution again, but in like a solid chalk plug. So instead of a slow drain, I had a complete clog. Sucked.
Incidentally, I fixed it by calling a plumber...the manly way.
This sounds like what we (me and Wife Unit) call 'glop'. Once you know the basics of cooking, it's a total gas.
Make (or buy) some kind of tasty sauce. Get some meat and veggies, in about a 1:2 weight ratio of meat to veggies, and about 0.5 of dried carbs if you like (e.g. pasta, rice, barley, etc.). The main idea is to use tasty meat/sauce/carbs as a vehicle for nutritious veggies, so get a huge variety of veggies, as in one each of a bunch of little fruits/ovaries/bulbs. Assuming you are a cook, you know to get some aromatics (e.g.mirepoix or the holy trinity) to form a base, but I always also get a bunch of other veggies, along with a guest vegetable that will be highlighted in the dish.
Then I look at Harold McGee, The Joy, or Alton Brown for ideas for the treatment of the guest vegetable (unless I have my own ideas), and do all the necessary things to all the ingredients to have it all come together. Browning, spices, herbs, marinating, whatever.
I make a lot (7-8 quarts) and freeze the leftovers. For staple eating, I cook three times a month and just nuke leftovers.
When we're having guests over, then I really cook. Oh, and I don't fuck around with knives either. Sharpetty sharp sharp. A sharp knife is a magic wand.
That's it.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY fondles MY malabrigio.
Ah - thanks Mattir and Patricia. You reminded me I need to take knitting on trip-to-friends tomorrow. Will be much downtime, must have something to do with hands.
Walton #503: If you like to work and you like to drink, sometimes you drink at work.
Speaking of which, back to the office for me.
@Patricia ISOM - Aren't you the one with the spanking couch? Don't you sense the possible synergy here? Malabrigio and spanking...
@Cannabinacea, #524
In case you've forgotten, the proper way to introduce said guest vegetable is the way they used to do it on sitcoms when a big star got a walk-on:
"Ladies and Gentlemen. . . . Broccoli."
(cue wild applause)
Josh - Did you happen to take a look at the link for Naughty Marvin & I's (?) wedding site? The "spiritual retreat" is owned by a gay pagan priest.
Patricia -
I think I took a quick gander when you first linked it. It looks like a lovely spot!
(Pedants Corner - "Marvin's and my. . .")
running away
Caine, that cheesecake sounds orgasmic. I'll have to make it next time I've got peeps* over for dinner.
As for myself, I think I'm gonna take a crack at home-made Pop Tarts this weekend.
*Rational peeps, at least. I'm starting to hit that age where everyone in my peer group has to have some sort of food thing. For instance: the last time I really cooked, I was asked to make a quiche for a group of people who don't eat dairy, wheat, or pork.
Let me run that by you again. A quiche. With no dairy. No wheat. And no pork.
I ended up making shirred eggs with *shudder* turkey bacon. It wasn't bad, but it sure as shit was no quiche.
Sorry about the mini-rant. This has been bothering me quite a bit lately.
PZ, you are my hero. The Miami New Times credits you with being the first one to link to Rekers' rentboy scandal.
I didn't realize at the time that you had broken the news on the blogosphere, and I can't thank you enough for doing it.
I was posting a comment when SB told me "Your session has expired" and required I sign in with TypePad.
Will SB ever get a permanent IS techie to fix things like that? Not to mention the inordinate time it takes for a post to be posted.
OK, sorry to drag the thread down (and I promise I'll end the drama forthwith), but I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate woo purveyors. Tomorrow I'm going home to take care of a dear old friend dying of liver cancer. We're all wrestling with doctors, discharge nurses, hospice, and god knows what all to figure out how to get him home to die in relative comfort.
I did a bit of Googling to see if I could get some information on what to expect in the end stages (which he's in), and what do I get on the first page of results but this:
[emboldening added]
Fuck you. With a chainsaw. Michael is getting 5 liters drained from his abdomen every day, his liver is failing, he can't stay awake, and he's a skeleton. It's not in his fucking mind.
Now, I know the difference between medically supported information, and woo. I know how to distinguish between stupid alt-med shit, and evidence-based information that will actually help me help my friend die in comfort.
But many people don't. Were I less clear-eyed and skeptical than I am, I could easily fall for this shit. This stupid, Oprah-fied view of illness. This wicked and cruel idea that one is to blame for one's own terminal illness - because you're not thinking enough thoughts of sunshine and lollipops. It is wicked and evil to tell people that, and it's unconscionable to make family and friends hold onto false hope and suffer misplaced guilt.
God, I hate these swindlers, these nasty, avaricious snake oil peddlers.
Sigh. Drama over.
Patricia! It's good to have you in the thread. How are you and Naughty Marvin? (When you're not busy breaking the spanking couch).
Mattir - Yep, spanking couch, trebuchet, chamber pots, and the Pharyngula bar tabs of grog and swill - Arrrrgh ya into it?
My favourite part about that was this photo which, as pointed out by The Daily Show, clear shows Rekers lifting his own luggage while the rent boy he allegedly hired to help is just standing there.
Don't feel alone.
This stupid, Oprah-fied view of illness.
...and speaking of the she-devil...
did anyone catch the Discovery Channel's version of the "Life" series with her narrating instead of Attenboroug?
seriously, that was peraps the most obnoxious and insipid bit of narrating I think I have ever seen in a nature documentary.
I watched the whole first episode with her narrating it, fumbling over words like "CapYOUchin" (really, that's how she pronounced it, repeatedly), and just couldn't stand any more of it.
I went and grabbed the BBC version instead.
...and relaxed noticeably to the soothing sound of sir Attenborough.
ahhhhh.
I fucking hate the Discovery Channel any more.
Cannabinaceae @524 wrote,
Wait, are you certain you aren't using my shelf? Those are my three favorite starting places as well. I'll start with The Joy, move to McGee, then try to recall Alton.
The one other thing I do is to drop into recipesource.com and read about 20 recipes for the same thing. I might scribble down some notes from that, but almost never follow the recipe.
Well, that's not entirely true, when I was learning how to cook scones, I started with a basic recipe from recipesource and then made slow modifications to it until I found the level of soda I wanted for the taste. The fiancee's co-workers ate the trial runs, so I made a few batches of the final recipe for them as a reward for eating what I considered to be poor quality scones. What I found particularly amusing was that they raved about the scones, but they never wanted to take the 20 minutes to make them themselves. Scones are real easy to make. They actually seem to taste better if you don't mix the ingredients thoroughly. Throw the ingredients into a bowl, fold a couple times, turn them out, pat them down, slice into triangles and bake. No real thought involved.
Knives. I've got one incredible boning knife that I inherited from my grandmother, and one fairly good chef's knife, but I've been thinking of getting a better chef's knife and maybe a few spares. I've finally convinced the fiancee to stop putting her knives in the dishwasher, now I need to spend a few hours sharpening them.
But there are so many little tricks to cooking too. Like, if you are cubing chicken, do it while it's still frozen (unless it's never been frozen), it's much easier to slice. I also regularly make caramelized onions to serve with chicken, and I find that throwing the frozen chicken breast into the frypan along with the onions, tarragon, and olive oil, cover, turn once, and everything is ready at the same time. The chicken has good browning on the outside, but the inside is as tender as if it was steamed, and the onions are sweet and tasty. Mmmm. And it's a dish I can start and leave on the stove at medium heat for 20 minutes while I do something else.
I've also experimented with microwaving potatoes for mashing, with mixed success. That is, instead of putting the pealed, cubed potatoes into a pot, put them into a microwave safe dish with water and heat everything in the microwave. I get reasonably good mashed potatoes, but when I do it in a pot, I can drain the water and put it the pot back on the stove to drive out even more water (and add some flavor by browning the potatoes a little) before adding the milk/cream. So I'm still working on that technique.
Man, this is a little longer than I intended. But food is one of the pleasures in life! It should be taken seriously with great joy!
But Feynmaniac, Rekers swears on a stack of Family Research Council handouts that he's completely heterosexual. Roy Zimmerman even has a song about it.
Josh:
That sort of crap is downright evil, if you ask me. It's unconscionable, which is one of the reasons I got so pissy whenever Quackass has barged in here.
Good luck with the visit, Josh. I hope you can convince them on the hospice and home care. I'll be thinking of you and your friends.
I was just dropping in to say that I haven't been posting much, and probably won't be for a few days yet, because CT politics has just gone bugfuck crazy in the last couple days, and as a delegate to the state convention, I've been busy.
Then I saw this story, and decided CT politics is actually relatively sane! [sigh]
In any case, I'm still busy; I feel like I'm missing a party, but it'll probably be a few days — maybe a week — before I can post much. Y'all don't do anything I wouldn't do, y'hear?
Ichythyic:
I most emphatically did not. As soon as I heard they nixed Attenborough for that vain piece of bloat, I ordered the BBC version.
But before I go...
If you liked the Dale Peterson for Alabama Ag Commissioner ad, check this out.
OurDeadSelves @532,
??????
I typically buy more heavy cream than I need for my New Years Eve chocolate fondue so that I can make proper quiche in the following days from the leftovers. We raise chickens too, so we get fresh eggs for the quiche.
OTOH, I'm supposed to be making some appetizers for a party on Saturday which includes a person who cannot have salt. No salt. And this isn't a self-induced food restriction, this is her physician (not woo-addled) who is requiring a no-salt diet. (Yes, she does get salt in her diet, but not much. Too much salt causes dizzy spells. And no, I've never heard of such a thing before, but at this point I have no reason to doubt.)
So, since the grape leaves have come out, I'll harvest some of them and make dolmas. I can make great-tasting dolmas without salt.
check this out.
@Caine:
Me too, and if he comes in here (oh, I wish he would, because I'd love a punching bag. . lol). . .
Seriously, I know I said I'd end the drama, and I will, but just a few more things, if you all will indulge me. I know it doesn't mean anything to anyone but me, but Michael is an extraordinary friend.
When I was a high school drop out with many problems - not the least of which was finding a place to live, and negotiating being an out gay kid - he took me into his home with his partner, Tim. He was a mentor to look up to, a role model as an older gay man with a settled, professional life. There are few people I can bitch with about the butchering of the English language, and he's one who gets it!
He was dying of AIDS in 1995, and, it seemed miraculously, got on the new protease inhibitor drugs when they first came out. Snatched from the jaws of death. Put on 30 pounds, went back to work, and we all rejoiced. He's been one of the most dependable supporters and activists for LGBT teachers, student, and just plain citizens, and has done more for the queer community in my hometown than anyone I know.
I know there's nothing fair or unfair about the universe - "it" doesn't care about us. But I do feel bitter about my friend dying at 57, when he was the one who lived through the first AIDS crisis. To see him die from cancer. . .
OK, that's enough, and thanks for listening. It's not anything all of us haven't suffered in one form or another, I know.
Damn, Josh. What a terribly bitter blow. That made me cry. Michael sounds like an extraordinary man, one who makes a difference in the world.
Gack! I say again, Gack! Never put a knife, even a stainless steel knife, in the dishwasher.
Get a sharpening stone, preferably an "oil stone"* and a sharpening steel. Get a good edge on the knife with the stone and use the steel to maintain the edge. Every couple of months put the edge back on with the stone.
*Do NOT oil a carborundum stone, use water for lubrication. Only oil stones should be oiled. Since you're using the knifes to cut food, the oil should be edible. Canola works fine for oil stones.
Feynmaniac, yeah, that photo was momentous in how perfectly it contradicted the Rekers' story.
---
Josh, very sorry to hear about your friend. The woo that some people peddle about illnesses racks my nerves, too.
Hi Cain - Well Naughty Marvin & I are just about as naughty as 50 and 60 year olds can be! Which should give great hopes to those of you frolicksome youths.
But I do feel bitter about my friend dying at 57, when he was the one who lived through the first AIDS crisis. To see him die from cancer. . .
I second Caine's statement. I'm sorry for your loss and the more so because it seems so horrible and unfair.
Unfortunately, it's probably also just part of the big load of crap that HIV dumps on people-a part we don't know how to cope with yet. People who are HIV infected, even with normal CD4 counts and non-detectable viral loads are probably more vulnerable to cancer still than uninfected people. And not just the traditional HIV related cancers but most, if not all, cancers. If anyone out there reading this has HIV: please don't blow off cancer screening tests or ignore early warning signs. The universe doesn't care but we can at least care for each other.
Flex:
Yeah, that was exactly my reaction.
I am so done with people and their fucking stupid food rules. I know all of one person with a legitimate food allergy and I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone else feels the need to be so fucking restrictive.
I am also totes done with one food masquerading as another food. For example: turkey bacon and turkey ham* can go fuck themselves.
*Yes, it exists. Consider my mind blown.
Josh, Official SpokesGay, wrote,
It is never an indulgence to learn of the life of a honorable and loved person.
You need not ask a favor of us to eulogize someone worthy of it. Only expound, and we will sympathize, and curse the uncaring world for cutting short the life of a worthy man.
As John Donne wrote, "...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind...."
Let him know that, because of your openness, many of the people on this forum are enriched with the knowledge of his life. And when he no longer lives, that we will grieve for him, with you.
Bill Dauphin, OM
Bill, what is going on with Blumenthal?
For those wondering about my question, the State Attorney General, Richard Blumenthal, claimed to be a Vietnam veteran. He spend six years in the Marine Corps Reserve but served only in the US.
Blumenthal is a candidate to replace Christopher Dodd in the Senate.
Josh:
I don't know what to say, except that you're absolutely correct about the woo-ists. They prey on the gullible at the most difficult time of their lives-- it's a disgusting shame.
I'm very sorry to hear about Michael. He sounds like an amazing, compassionate person.
Tis Himself OM - No, Bluemthal does not get a whoopsie for "misplaced words", I am a widow of a disabled veteran of the "Viet Nam era", Blumenthal's service record is deferments.
Josh,
A friend of yours is dying. This man is one of the good ones, the kind of person we need more of. I don't know him or of him, except through your description. But I regret the loss, both for you and for the world in general.
Or you could just be like me and spend a fortune on audible.com
Have you not heard of bit torrent, grasshopper?
Does anyone know how hard they're going after people downloading books and such off of bittorrent?
No, they're not coming after bittorrent users, but they're definitely going after the bittorrent servers, with very limited success (for now). If you look hard enough, you can find a great number of audiobooks out there. You just have to be persistent.
Not to be a moralistic troll or anything, but I actually think that paying for books (and audiobooks) is something I want to do. I will occasionally copy stuff from the library, but usually that's because I can't find it online. And if you get a platinum membership, the books are usually less than $10 apiece.
Now can I pontificate on abortion and the virtues of religion, just to cement my moralistic troll status?
Sigh.
Reading through the thread, I realize how boring I am to be the resident flaming heterosexual.
Patricia,
I agree. Blumenthal does not get a pass on this. What I'm wondering is how a politician, someone who's entire life is looked at very carefully, would make such a stupid mistake as to pretend he's something that he's not.
Mattir, not all of us are, uh, financially gifted. If I had to buy every single one that I have, I'd be broker than I already am.
I have bought a few, especially at used book stores. But without a car, getting to the stories or libraries these days is zero fun.
That's why I actually wasn't being a moralistic troll. I want to support the availability of audiobooks and actually don't mind the idea of people pirating them. I just don't want to, myself. And I promise not to moralize about abortion and the virtues of religious fundamentalism.
Aquaria,
If it's boring, you're doing it wrong. ;P
I'm going to be snarling over this "gem" from SlantedScienceTroll in the Creepiest Christian thread:
Of course, being a little paranoid while downloading possibly incriminating material has never hurt anyone, and I heartily recommend using software to block known anti-sharing organisations from connecting to your computer. For modern incarnations of Windows PeerBlock works great. Download, install, make sure P2P-block list is selected and you're ready to go.
Patricia:
As a 52 year old, I know just how naughty you two can be. You'll set the house on fire! ;)
Aquaria - Uhh - I'm a flaming heterosexual. Thank goodness, since my husband died, I've gone from unwilling celebate to happy lover.
Umm, time is what makes the difference.
Please, no more with the emotional arguments. Commenters have accused me of this, but my examples are as nothing beside the people who have been dredging the swamps of womanhood to diminish my arguments.
It makes me feel terrible to even think someone could say something like that.
He is a very sick kind of troll, that's for sure.
Thank you all, sincerely, for your kind thoughts about my friend's impending death. Shit sucks right now, no doubt, and I do appreciate your listening, and your thoughts.
Now, don't forget I'm still Teh SpokesGay. Sure, I'll spend the next couple of days wrasslin' with hospital staff, and stuffing some ugly hospital bed up in that tiny condo (may have to grease the door up - Walton or Kevin, you available?). But I'm gonna make damn sure Michael has a good time, and a comfortable time. If I have to slap him into telling me what kind of supper he could take two bites of, then so be it.
And, he will be forced to relive ridiculous stories from our shared past while we watch badly done camp movies. Anyone who has to suffer a loving, but straight-from-brooklyn-casting Jewish mother when one's dying - and God love Irene, I know what she's going through, but oy. . .- deserves a John Waters break.
We'll just have her cool her heels and get a permanent wave at Mr. Ray's Wig World. :-)
'Tis and Patricia:
The more folks dig into this, the less it seems that Blumenthal is guilty of any attempt to deliberately misrepresent his service record. Indeed, at another point in the very same speech the NYT story was based on, he describes his service perfectly accurately... as he has on numerous occasions before and since, including in the debate he had earlier in this campaign with Democratic opponent Merrick Alpert.
Instead, the Times piece seems more like a smear, based on oppo research (~$16 million worth, according to one report) by the Linda McMahon campaign (for those who don't know, she's the wife of WWE mogul Vince McMahon, and running for the R nomination for the same seat), apparently abetted by some pretty lazy reporting.
It's fair to be mad, if you choose, about the deferments, but Blumie did eventually join the Marines, and served for (IIRC) 6 or 7 years total, between active duty and reserves, albeit never overseas. His record of public service (and, before this incident, for personal integrity) is unimpeachable, and he's been a great friend to CT veterans in particular. He's attended every single funeral for CT troops killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I was pretty pissed about this myself, when the story first broke... but the more I learn, the less I think my original anger was correct. In any case, the alternatives — Mrs. Wrasslin' and Joe Courtney's predecessor Rob Simmons, whom I've already worked to get out of Congress once — are too awful to contemplate, and there's no other plausible Democrat who could take Blumie's place. (Except maybe Susan Bysiewicz, who's just been ruled ineligible for Attorney General and needs a new race to run).
At least nobody in CT is proposing a "leper colony" for pedophiles, like that whackjob in CA!
Mattir,
Other than legality, what is the difference between (a) borrowing a book from a library, reading it and then returning it and (b) downloading a book via torrent, reading it and then deleting it?
Josh,
I am sincerely sorry about your friend. Terminal disease sucks. One thing many hospices provide is information for patients including how to add extra calories to food, so that even when they don't feel like eating much (if at all) they can get some nourishment.
Josh
When sitting with a dying friend:
do whatever he wants; hand-holding, hugging, watching porn, watching WaltDisney, writing nasty letters to politicians, etc.
Dying should trump everything else.
Take care of yourself, too.
If it's boring, you're doing it wrong.
No, being hetero is boring, not doing it hetero! Sheesh.
Trust me, it would not be boring if I ended up in bed with this guy
Bye Bye Antarctica!
He is a very sick kind of troll, that's for sure.
indeed, I have voiced interest in seeing irritating trolls banned over the years, and often gotten my wish, but this slimeball?
I just can't stand to think he will pollute another thread here again.
He simply HAS to go.
Wonder if SickSlime wrote the original article as well.
Aquaria,
Yeah, I got that. OTOH, I find this terribly problematic. Saying that being heterosexual is boring is exotifying both homosexuality and bisexuality. It's part of heterosexual privilege in the same way that saying "being white is so boring" is part of white privilege.
Aquaria,
just curious, where did you hear of Matsumoto Jun? I can't imagine Arashi's brand (should that be bland) of J-pop travels that well.
I liked 'Hana yori Dango' in a sort of suspended belief fairy-tale way, and I think he was one of the generic bad-boy-with-a-heart-of-golds in one of the series of 'Gokusen', but again I didn't think Japanese comedy-drama traveled that well.
When sitting with a dying friend:
do whatever he wants; hand-holding, hugging, watching porn, watching WaltDisney, writing nasty letters to politicians, etc.
As someone who spent a lot of her childhood sitting with dying people to keep them company, I think this is the most important thing to remember.
The hardest thing for most people to understand is that the dying are under tremendous stress and worrying or fussing over them too much/often does not help that, and never mind the tears and the wailing. They just want someone who's there, quietly, and who can get or do things for them. At their request.
One guy that I'd visit when my grandfather was napping or getting some kind of test or procedure would have me sit with him while he indulged his guilty pleasure, watching soap operas. His favorite was Secret Storm. But if that's what he wanted to watch, well, more power to him. I was too young to understand most of what was going on, but I liked the opening and ending .
Then again oceans fascinated a girl stuck in the boonies of East Texas.
Poll that needs some votes! Not many, but some.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,27150655-23211,00.html
Is it okay to require gay athletes to hide who they are for the sake of "team cohesion"? Vote no!
Still 47% no.
Hey, so I know that being gay or bi is so hot right now (Randi, Ricky Martin, Kevin, Walton), but what do you all think about this stay-in-the-closet opinion piece by the Australian Rules footballer Jason Akermanis?
Akermanis (who is presumably hetero) says that he was good friends with a gay footballer, but that a footballer coming out could destroy the "fabric" of the club. And also that they would be victimised by fans and other players.
Could Akermanis and all those closeted gay footballers be right? Or are they underestimating the power of being out and proud?
Disclaimer: A gay friend of mine claims to have fucked a Richmond player.
ambulocetacean @#587:
Whether to talk about one's sexuality is, and should always be, a personal choice. It's not for me to tell any given gay or bisexual person whether they should or shouldn't be candid about their identity.
In my case, I'm very much conscious of how lucky I am to live in a generally non-homophobic environment where I'm not likely to face any negative consequences. Not everyone is so lucky. And it's up to the individual how candid they want to be about these matters.
Hopefully, one day we can live in a society where there is no prejudice against LGBT people, and where everyone feels comfortable talking about their sexuality. But we're not there yet - in many environments, not even close - and so it has to be up to the individual.
Skimming to catch up on the thread... Josh, I'm, sorry to hear about your friend.
Further to the Akermanis thing I posted above, Australian swimmer Daniel Kowalski has blasted Akermanis for telling people to stay in the closet. But Kowalski only came out a few weeks ago, long after his career was over. Is that hypocritical?
Hi Walton,
Yeah, I agree that nobody should be obliged to out themselves, especially if that could hurt them physically, socially or career-wise.
But I'm just trying to think from Akermanis's point of view as a straight footballer who is OK with gay footballers. I would like to think that in his place I would have written "In the closet or out of the closet, gay footballers are OK by me and anyone who gives them shit is gonna have me to deal with. Not that those muscle Marys can't look after themselves. I should know."
I guess I'm asking whether Akermanis's stay-in-the-closet stance (which is presumably out of concern for the welfare of his gay colleagues) is a good thing or counterproductive. I really don't know.
I do think it's a bit much for Kowalski to be getting stuck into Akermanis, though. Until just a few weeks ago, Kowalski was doing exactly what Akermanis recommends.
Josh, I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. It must be hard. And I agree with you about the stupidity and shallowness of the alt-med "you can cure all your ills through positive thinking!" crowd.
And thank you for the cheesecake suggestions. I'll post here this evening and let you know how it turns out!
Horrible news story of the day: The gay couple from Malawi who were recently arrested, Steven Monjeza and Tiwonge Chimbalanga, have been sentenced to fourteen years' imprisonment with hard labour by a Malawian court.
For the first time ever, I'm going to email my local MP, and call for British politicians to condemn this gross abuse of basic civil liberties in a Commonwealth country. My doing so may not achieve anything beyond the merely symbolic: but I think we have to show, by whatever means we can, that we care about this couple's human rights. The more people around the world who speak out for them, the better.
@576: authors generally get paid a (very) small royalty based on the rate at which their books are borrowed. So you should download on torrent, read and delete, then post the author 2p.
JeffreyD
Hmm, this is rather difficult, and delicate, and I'm scared to ask*, but I'd be interested in hearing more about that.
I'm hoping your involvement was with something to do with extracting foreign hostages from Stanleyville, such as Operation Dragon Rouge, rather than some of the other mercenary operations (which no one could admit to, or they'd probably end up in The Hague).
* The elder brother of my next door neighbour (in the 1950s and early 60s) was a mercenary in the Congo. When he returned for leave he, and his fellow mercenaries, would regale us with proud tales of how many "kaffirs" (male, female, children) they had killed. They got paid according to how many severed ears they produced as proof of their kills.
All wars are dirty, but the mercenary war in the Congo was about as dirty as it's possible to get.
I think there's a difference between an athlete deciding that they are more comfortable in the closet, and other people saying they should stay there. Very often, protestations about "team coherence" or hassle from fans is just cover for wanting to keep the status quo and never feel uncomfortable. And the culture in the sport is never going to change until people start coming out - but I totally understand why someone would choose not to.
Personally, when I figured out I was bi, I decided I wouldn't announce it, but would be honest about it when it was relevant to the conversation - but different things are suitable for different people. Incidentally, a rather belated congratulations to Walton and Kevin for coming out.
ambu wrt gay footballers in Aussie Rules and Akermanis' post drivel :
He babbled that the sport "mightn't be ready" and that it "mightn't be safe" for anyone to come out as gay, meaning they might get attacked more viciously on and off the field.
Obviously lots of hypocrisy and denial in a sport like this that values strong "manly" men with athletic bodies and the whole drinking/drugs/hetero sex culture that goes with it.
I find this particular sport, and its brother Rugby, utterly ridiculous and uninteresting from a sports spectator perspective, and such moronic comments also make them pathetic from another perspective.
Here's what I just sent to the local Oxford MPs, Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) and Andrew Smith (Oxford East):
I don't know how much good it will do. But at least we can try.
Fortunately, in the UK Rugby has become one of the first sports where gay men can feel some safety in coming out. We have a top level referee, Nigel Owens who came out, as well as a former Welsh international Gareth Thomas. Of course, both of their stories of coming out are full of familiar pain and struggles. However, after they came out, I think it would be fair to say that the average rugby fan didn't really give a shit. In a good way.
There are also the Kings Cross Steelers competing in an English RFU county league (sponsored by the Meteropolitan Police, too).
Ah, I didnt know that ! That's indeed good news.I don't think we're quite there yet, if we can believe Akermanis and people coming out as gay would have to fear stupid acts of violence or whatever on and off the field.
It appears that Pakistan is going a bit nuts on the internet censorship, prompted by cries of blasphemy on Facebook and . Thought you guys might want to know
Aquaria @564, wrote,
Aquaria @#579:
Mmmm... you certainly have good taste. :-)
Caine F du M #491
Many years ago I was talking to a work mate about cooking. I mentioned how inadvisable it was to rub one's eyes after preparing chillies.
'Oh I know' he replied 'but having a wank is even worse'
I repeated this to Miss M. 'Tell him to use rubber gloves next time, either when cooking OR wanking BUT NOT BOTH' was her advice.
Tis #565
Jeffrey Archer
Paintings by Picasso, Matisse, Braque, Modigliani and Leger stolen from Paris Museum of Modern Art
Eat The Rich
@Aquaria (579) and Walton (602):
Geh... he looks so young. He's cute, but I'd feel so guilty fawning over him. There was a guy who got off the Metro this morning - a navy guy who I passed by - and he was very cute. It's funny that now I've totally accepted myself, I actually can admit that some guys are really cute.
Is it okay to require gay athletes to hide who they are for the sake of "team cohesion"?
Only if straight players are also required to hide who they are for the sake of team cohesion. If it's celibacy and no talking about attraction for all, ok. Otherwise, FSM no!
Re: Gay Athletes:
Kinda reminds me of the horrid "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." The whole 'locker room nudity' thing.
If your teammate or your army buddy is gay, there's nothing that will change if they come out. The only change will be with the hetero people who get squicked out knowing that someone gay might be looking at their junk.
News flash - those gay people you're so worried about seeing you naked have been seeing you naked since they got on the team with you! The only people who make it uncomfortable are those who make it uncomfortable for themselves.
Every athlete and army person probably is already sharing a shower or barracks with a gay person.
Bill Maher and panel on Atheism vs Religion
Continuing gecko weirdness. More and more and more of it... and more...
What is, however, missing from geckos is toothy goodness. So, help yourself elsewhere (scroll down a little) and elsewhere again (savour the entire page).
That's "Sir David". English nobility is older than surnames.
Well, if not, nothing is lost, we can simply scroll on.
I didn't.
...Is he even... like... old enough for that?
"Yes - 52.42% (184 votes)
No - 47.57% (167 votes)"
:-S
The imagination itself almost hurts.
Oh, funny (or disturbing) mental picture time
Fat, hairy almost 40 something out of shape guy doing Yoga for a 1.5 hours this morning at 5 AM.
um, ouch.
I didn't mean in that way.
Though, for some people, that might work, too.
Even then, repression of sexuality does nobody any favours. Not least of all because it simply panders those good, normal heterosexuals who are homophobic to the point that they would sacrifice team cohesion if one of their number turned out to be - shock! - a gay. They would simply assume that everyone else was straight, and it would be business as usual.
Until everyone can simply, openly be themselves, then there isn't real parity.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell is just another way of saying gay = bad.
Even then, repression of sexuality does nobody any favours. Not least of all because it simply panders those good, normal heterosexuals who are homophobic to the point that they would sacrifice team cohesion if one of their number turned out to be - shock! - a gay.
I agree. The suggestion was mostly to see how discomfitted all those "normal" heterosexuals would be if someone demanded that THEY suppress their sexuality for the good of the team.
Hey Rorschach, don't lump Aussie rules in with rugby. Aussie rules is a great game. And a lot of AFL players were involved in that anti-homophobia campaign this year.
But I still don't get why Akermanis thinks gay players can't come out. Ian Roberts came out in rugby league in 1995 and he survived.
I was on the train this morning and was forced to endure listening to a bit of petty bigotry from an elderly couple sitting behind me.
First of all they were discussing an article in the paper on the French ban on face veils, and there was a (a clearly hyperbolic) quote from a women complaining that she wanted the right to choose whether or not to wear a veil, and that she might go to live in Saudi Arabia. This, of course, elicited the response that it was good, and that perhaps she would take her friends with her.
Sigh.
Just in case anyone was in any doubt about what kind of people these were, the topic then moved ont to this.
Essentially, two sixteen year olds vandalised prayer books and an antique cross. they were found guilty and fined, but the magistrate also took it upon himself to call these foolish children "scum". The mother of one complained, and the magistrate was demoted from chairman of the bench, on the grounds that calling children scum is unprofessional, even if they have vandalised property.
Anyway, the father of the other child has said that his son is scum, because he was raised as a good catholic by a church going family, and they all agree that he is scum.
So, this old couple discussed the matter, agreeing that the children were scum and that the magistrate was the victim of an insane conspiracy of political correctness. Also, that the mother who objected to description of her child as "scum" was probably an atheist.
Bill Dauphin, OM #575
The defenses of Blumenthal are getting confusing. He gave an accurate description of his service in the early part of the speech. He said he "served in the military during the Vietnam era."
But that does not in any way contradict his later remark where he said he served in Vietnam. The earlier statement doesn't contradict the later one. The two statements combined give the impression he served in Vietnam. That's the issue here.
Like you I worked to get Simmons out of Congress but I'd rather see him in the Senate than McMahon. I know Peter Schiff personally. Nice guy, pleasant to talk to, has an inexhaustible supply of shaggy dog stories. Just as I didn't put any money with his investment firm, I wouldn't vote for him for any office. He's a libertarian Teabagger.
I don't see another Democrat with a reasonable chance besides Blumenthal. (I wonder what Gejdenson is doing now.) Bysiewicz should have stayed in the governor's race, she had a definite chance there even against Lamont.
Because he's a dimwit ?
In the eye of the beholder and all that...:-)
Same manly men/body cult/drugs/booze/sex/rape culture.
Hmmm... in the cold light of morning, I find that I need to "revise and extend" my comments @575, in two particulars:
I can understand if people are upset with Blumenthal over this issue (and as an aside, I will be so happy when U.S. politics finally stops being about Vietnam... if I live that long), but after struggling with this for the last couple days, I conclude that he's still the best choice to fill Chris Dodd's senate seat... best for CT, and best for the nation. (In case you wonder why my opinion should matter, I'm a delegate to the state Democratic Convention, which begins tomorrow, and which will endorse candidates in this and all the other statewide races.)
And now for a complete change of subject: Aquaria, Walton, and Kevin, does y'all's drooling over this young man mean it's now OK for me to say how hot I think Rachel Maddow is, or is that still out of bounds? ;^)
Seriously, I think how you react to gender-bending looks (as in the linked photo) is only loosely related to one's actual sexuality: I often find myself attracted to (and I mean sexually attracted, at least in the abstract sense that a monogamous married man can be sexually attracted to women other than his wife) women whose looks could be described as mannish (e.g., Maddow describes herself that way, although I think she somewhat overstates the case) or boyish... and yet I have no sexual interest in actual men or boys. Not even in men or boys who look notably feminine: The closest I've come to that is occasionally (very occasionally) thinking, "hmm... if he were a woman, she'd probably be hot."
Honestly, as a heterosexual male, the argument that knowing someone is gay will change a team dynamic has always made me angry. As Kevin pointed out:
As bigotry goes, it doesn't even have a veneer of logic.
1) Why would I think that every gay man wants to see me naked?
2) Even if there are gay men who want to see me naked, should I be afraid that their lasers for eyes will burn my little penis off?
3) Am I to suppose that even those notional gay men who do find me attractive will be so possessed of lust that they will try to have sex with me on the spot (and presumably that I will unable to stop them)?
4) Am I so stunning attractive that gay men will forget to eat, forget to take vital saftey precautions, accidentally drop matches, run with scissors, step on cracks in the pavement, and thereby trigger the kind of catastrophy and death toll normally reserved for Roland Emmerich movies?
You know, as a heterosexual guy, I find the idea that I should be scared of gay men really tiresome. The idea that I should feel less manly because I'm not repulsed by being hit on by a man, or touched in a slightly overfriendly manner by a man, just pisses me off.
I welcome the day when nobody has to hide who they are. Fear is the real enemy.
David M, I've been enjoying the gecko series at Tet Zoo. I love geckos, although the house gecko is an invasive species in Oz.
I don't understand leaf-tail geckos, though. Wouldn't having a tail that looks like a leaf focus a predator's attention on the rest of the gecko? I guess it must help with the overall camouflage thing. I should post the question over at Tet Zoo.
Bernard Bumner, I live in a pretty gay part of town, and some years ago (before I got really fat) gay guys would occasionally check me out on the street. I took it as a compliment: "Yeah, you've still got it, Amby!"
@Bill Dauphin:
Actually, I think he's cute, but I don't think I'm especially drooling over him. I might want to give him a hug, but that's about the extent of my attraction to him.
You can think Rachel Maddow is hot. I watch her shows a day late, and yesterday (so Monday's episode) I commented about how pretty she looked in that episode. Dr. Maddow is a beautiful woman. Honestly, I don't find her mannish at all.
@Bernard Bumner:
I would think a heterosexual man would be flattered to know that a gay man finds him attractive.
The rest of the gecko is almost unbelievably well-camouflaged against the tree-bark. If a predator notices anything, it's guaranteed to be the tail-end, not the killable end.
Me (@619):
I hate when that happens!
'Tis (@617):
I agree that the other reference (which the Times ignored) in the 2008 Norwalk speech doesn't save that from being an occasion on which Blumenthal left an incorrect impression... nor does he claim it does: He admitted in yesterday's press conference that he misspoke on that occasion, and may have done so on other occasions. But the other, strictly correct, part of the speech does undercut the notion that he's made any deliberate, systematic effort to falsify his service history, which was the thrust of the Times story (and of the McMahon campaign in feeding the story to the Times). Nothing in the rest of his record supports that assertion, either. Did you click through to the Colin McEnroe column I linked to? McEnroe's survey of key journalists covering state politics found that, with a single exception, none of them were under the impression that Blumie had served in Vietnam, nor did any of them think he'd been trying to create that impression. Even Simmons doesn't think he was lying about his record (though the execrable Chris Shays apparently does).
As for Bysiewicz, all indications are that she's looking for a home on the ticket somewhere. I have good friends who are working on the Denise Merrill campaign for Secretary of the State, and I'm pretty sure they'll be royally pissed if Susan tries to parachute back into that race. A better choice might be Comptroller, which wasn't even a race until the last week or so, when Nancy Wyman (who is beloved, at least in my neck of the woods) declared for Lt Governor on the Dan Malloy ticket. There are several good Dem candidates for that office, but none of them has as much invested in the race as Denise and her opponent Jonathan Harris. Ironically, Bysiewicz's exit from the AG race appears to have cleared the way for her brother-in-law to run for the Republican nomination. It's a funny old world, and CT politics has been funnier yet in the last few days.
Though I must admit that I'd like to see what would happen if don't ask don't tell were really implemented in the military. That is, no one was allowed to express their sexual orientation at all. Marriage would be forbidden. As would having an open girl or boyfriend. Flirting could get you in trouble regardless of the object or whether it was welcome or not. Porn would, of course, be disallowed, simply because it would reveal your sexuality (are the pictures of men, women, or both?) No pictures on your desk or in your pocket while you're out on active duty in a place you could be killed...of course, no notification of anyone who is not a blood relative and no friends or lovers allowed to help if you are hurt.
In short, if DADT really applied to heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, how long would it last? My guess is not long. Anecdotally, a friend of mine who was, at one point, in the Marines said that the upper echelons once asked him a series of "loyalty questions", ie would be still be in the Marines if you had to...He said "yes" to most of them (i.e. if he had to move, take on an unfamiliar task, eat small mammals live, whatever other insane things they could think of)but said no when he was asked if he would stay in if he were required to be divorced. While that's obviously just one person, I doubt he's atypical. So rigorously enforcing DADT could be a win-win: either it would disappear entirely or the enforcement would decimate the military to the point that the US wouldn't have spare soldiers to go off invading with.
And why not?
I live in Manchester, and I know that the visible strength and vibrancy of the gay community is still a shock to many people when they first come here. Worryingly, there has also been a rise in the recorded number of homophobic incidents over recent years (although I think, in part, that is because of the greater interaction between the gay community and the rest of the populous - the bars and clubs of Canal Street have become very popular with young heterosexuals, too. Not my scene, because I think it is rude to crash someone else's party when you have so much else to yourself).
I know people who don't consider themselves to be homophobic, who consider themselves to be liberal, but who would still feel threatened by approval from a guy man. It really frustrates me. (Especially given their stinking attitude to lesbians. Don't get me started on that one.)
Josh, *hugs*. And *hugs* for your friend, also.
Aquaria, I also am heterosexual and boring. Maybe we could form a support group. :D
That's not funny or disturbing; that's insane. Possibly even sick. *shaking head* "5 AM...."
Am I to suppose that even those notional gay men who do find me attractive will be so possessed of lust that they will try to have sex with me on the spot (and presumably that I will unable to stop them)?
I suspect that this is at the core of a lot of homophobia. I think that homophobia is essentially an aspect of sexism. Men who are homophobic may tend to be more objectifying about their sexuality than the average man. And if the homophobe thinks of people he is attracted to as "prey", less than equals or maybe even less than human then he will be terrified at the idea that another man might see him that way and so fear and hate gay men.
@Bernard Bumner:
Back when I was pretending to be hetero - I was hit on by a gay man. I was completely flattered by it - told him I wasn't interested (though I probably was) and walked off.
Kevin (@623):
Actually, I was somewhat cheekily referring to an old thread (possibly before you became a regular?) in which several of us declared our undying lust for Dr. Maddow, after she'd done or said something especially awesome on her show, and got quite properly called out for objectifying her.
But while I agree it's incorrect to reduce admiration for her work to sexual terms, I nevertheless continue to find her physically attractive, independently of my love for what she stands for. Sue me, eh?
Or even that a straight man does: When I was a 19 yo college boy, I was at a nightclub¹ with a date and her girlfriend (which I mean in the social rather than sexual sense... alas). In those days, I had shoulder-length blond hair that was, if I do say so myself, quite pretty. So I'm sitting at the table with my back to the dancefloor, and I hear a male voice behind me asking if I'd like to dance. Confused, I turned to see if what I'd heard had really been directed to me. It had, but when the fellow behind me saw my mustache, all the blood drained from his face and he beat a hasty retreat!
It was, briefly, mildly embarrassing to have been mistaken for a woman in front of my date... but ultimately, it was flattering. Sadly, that remains the closest I've ever come to having a stranger come on to me!
¹ In those dear, departed days, the U.S. drinking age was 18, and college kids could go clubbing legally. Take that, youngsters! ;^)
From the linked article #585,
So it's OK for naked, heterosexual men to slap one another on the bum but not OK for homosexuals?
Yeah, I understand.
Well, not really.
@Bill Dauphin:
Ohh. Yeah, I guess that was a bit before I became a regular. Regardless, she's quite beautiful, and super-smart - that latter which makes her more attractive to me.
I used to have long hair - and it was always called pretty. I wasn't hit on by any straight guys, but I'm sure the chance was there.
Dianne,
It would be interesting to see any research along those lines. It is a very plausible explanation, given that so many of the most vocal homophobe also seem to be so stridently macho and misogynistic.
Like most people with a healthy sense of my own sexuality and relatively normal sized ego, I'm flattered by attention from any quarter. What a sad world it would be if, upon being told that I was attractive, all I felt was loathing.
Well, I'm glad that you've been able to come out, and hope that you're able to find the freedom to be exactly who you are. Moreover, I hope that very soon the only things that will be in closets anywhere are clothes and tools, because nobody will care anymore.
I wonder when we'll get the first openly gay head of state? I wonder if that is what it will take?
Bill,
I read McEnroe's column. He makes a good case for Blumenthal, in fact a better case than Blumenthal did at his press conference. I did notice that Simmons came to Blumenthal's defense. As for Shays, I stopped paying attention to him years ago.
Enjoy yourself at the convention. I'll be reading about it in the paper (New London Day) and thinking "don't I know somebody there?"
@kiyaroru:
And perhaps some of those 'heterosexual' men whose bums are being slapped are actually closeted homosexuals, yeah...
It makes NO sense!
If we're on the topic of hot guys, there's always Mario Lopez for me.
Shame that he's apparently a republican though.
Brad Pitt is fine too though his current beard makes me want to die.
@Bernard Bumner:
I'm slowly coming to real terms with who I am. I think bisexuality might only be the tip of the 'I'm lying about who I am' iceberg.
Sorry, Kevin. I ommitted your name from my previous reply.
@Shala:
Yeah... Lopez and Pitt are quite tasty *hehe*
Sven re geckos @624. Thanks for that. I get it now.
Hey, something related to UK Politics not from a person in the UK.
Good for you guys's government for this. Hopefully the Home Secretary realizes how dumb it would be to extradite McKinnon.
Yeah... Lopez and Pitt are quite tasty *hehe*
I sense good taste within this thread.
Rachel Maddow is indeed hot. And awesome. And the awesome contributes to the hotness.
Here in Birmingham, gay bars are pretty popular with young straight women, because there's much less chance of being hit on by skeevy drunk guys who don't understand the word no.
It would be interesting to see any research along those lines. It is a very plausible explanation, given that so many of the most vocal homophobe also seem to be so stridently macho and misogynistic.
There is at least some evidence that homophobia and racism/sexism are correlated. Making homophobia, the most currently socially acceptable of these prejudices, interesting as a sort of screening test for other prejudices.
These are bits of wisdom&trade from my youth in the late Pleistocene:
The people who are the most virulent, violent anti-homosexuals are themselves "latent" homosexuals.
Normal&trade men shower, comb their hair and brush their teeth. Any man who does more is probably gay. Barbers are OK but any man who goes to a hair-dresser is positively flaming.
Methinks you're confusing her face with her brain :-)
I agree she doesn't look male, though.
Only if he thinks women have the same taste.
Either I'm just having a culture shock.
Or the denial is industry-strength in that one.
Any? Aren't there some that would creep you out?
@kiyaroru:
I go to a salon. Honestly, though, it's because I got used to salon-style haircuts. My sister was training to be a cosmetologist / beautician and she needed a guinea pig to try haircuts out. Everything she did was fantastic and made my hair look great that I don't think I ever could go to a barber again.
Although I do pamper myself a little bit more in the shower than just soap, shampoo, comb, brush - so yeah, I definitely should have called that one a little earlier than I did, hehe.
@David M:
Honestly I think both her face and her brain are beautiful. The fact she's super-smart helps, of course - but purely on physical aesthetics, Dr. Maddow is a very beautiful woman.
Gah! HTML fail! Sorry!
Normal&trade men shower, comb their hair and brush their teeth. Any man who does more is probably gay.
I don't do any more than shower, comb my hair and brush my teeth (ok, I floss too). Does that make me a man or a lesbian? I'm pretty sure either will surprise my boyfriend.
@Dianne:
Do you shave your legs?
Well, not necessarily. I don't feel the need to look for approval from any woman other than my partner. If anybody else - male or female - wants to offer it, then it is the complement I'm flattered by, because my position on any scale of attractiveness rating is purely academic.
Ma*us is still nuts and Blogspot doesn't have banning options. Meh.
@KOPD:
Yah - Blogspot sucks for that, you've just gotta user comment moderation, sadly.
Despite being primarily hetero, I'd say that Zach Quinto is very hot, but in a way that I can't fully articulate. He doesn't inspire lust so much as he inspires a strange kind of... longing. I barely think at all about jumping into bed with him, though it's not at all unappealing to me (FWIW, there have been men who did inspire lust in me, which is why I find his case interesting)...it just doesn't seem to be the primary factor behind his attractiveness.
The same thing goes for Rachel Maddow, since she's been mentioned. Everything about her (poise, personality, and yes, even looks) is attractive, and I could imagine being with her as a life partner or something, but with little or even no interest in the sexual side of things.
I feel like this is more than just starry-eyed fandom, and I don't think I have a stalker crush on them either - they just tap into some kind of...pan-amorous (if that's even a word) sentiment in me.
Anybody else, maybe, know what I'm getting at?
What if I substitute a razor for the comb? Like that guy. Oops, never mind. :-)
@651: No, I don't. But the reason is the most submissive female one possible: my boyfriend doesn't like it. Yep, I'm a hairy legged feminist to keep my guy happy.
kiyaroru wrote,
Does this mean, since I've gone bald, that I'm more manly than Normal™ men since I only shower and brush my teeth?
Or should I start waxing my scalp to a high polish in order to remain in realm of Normal™?
All these rules for normality, I can never keep them straight, and I don't plan to.
David Marjanović:
It's quite simple, really. You slap other guys on the arse so that they know you're not gay.
Because if you were gay you would never slap other guys on the arse because then they would know that you were gay.
Meathead Psychology 101.
I'd say that Zach Quinto is very hot
Oh you can bet when he's playing Sylar that he's always on my mind.
She's amazing. Completely graceful with a beautiful smile.
I tend to look at people's movements more than their actual static features.
It's hard for me to tell from pictures whether I find some one attractive or not. Hearing them talk, and watching how they interact with the world is where I form my sense of human beauty.
And yes, one of the very reasons she's so attractive to me is her accomplishment. I love ambitious people, people with goals.
Learn to speak Tea Bag
Oh I love artifice. I do it all, except for nails because I use my hands too much to manage long nails.
I love dressing people and such. I actually enjoy it when men enjoy it too.
I do haircuts and whatnot for friends for fun, try to get them to express themselves a little with their look.
And yes, one of the very reasons she's so attractive to me is her accomplishment. I love ambitious people, people with goals.
I was just thinking about something similar to this. When I see a Christian fundie slimeball like Kent Hovind or Ken Ham, a small part of my mind screams "do not want".
It could be the fake smiles or the dead eyes, but something about them just seems unbelievably wretched and slimy.
@MrFire:
Zachary Quinto is pretty darn hot. I really like his eyes, too. And yes, like you said Dr. Maddow is very attractive because I feel like she's more than just the talking bimbos on Fox News.
@Dianne:
Ah, well that makes you a bit manlier than me *coughadmissioncough*
@ambulocetacean:
Totally makes sense... completely.
Aquaria
Not to worry. You are not the only flaming hetero on the thread. And (((Wife))) and I are, to the rest of the world, boring. First we got married, then we had children. We pay our taxes. We have a minivan and a sedan. We have cats, fish and rats. We grow tomatoes and chili pappers. We cook (actually, I cook) most of our meals and bake most of our bread.
Except for the liberal, progressive and athiest parts, we're the perfect Christianist family.
And I suspect that is one thing that scares the schit out of theists -- how can atheists be so 'normal'?
Josh:
You, and your friend, have my sincere sympathy. I don't know you outside of Pharyngula, but, as a general rule, if good people are honestly sad to see someone die, he (or she) is also a good person.
Blockquote Fail Again! Second and third Paras should be blockquoted.
On to a millino!
@iambilly:
Liar!!
Christians don't grow chili peppers!
Portcullis coming? I'll risk it...
David (@647):
Methinks it's not so much a matter of "confusing" as a sort of cognitive filtering: I'm no cognitive neuroscientist, but my anecdotal experience has been that how you feel about someone affects how you see them... and I'm not referring to increased loyalty here; I mean you literally see people differently based on intellectual or emotional evaluations of them.
I recall my first serious girlfriend (in high school; I was something of a late bloomer), about whom I was mercilessly teased because she was supposedly ugly. I was honestly baffled by this, because I thought she was beautiful. This was not a matter of being "true to my girl" out of loyalty, mind you; I truly saw her as beautiful. After we broke up, however, I saw her differently (including in pictures from when we were together): terrible acne, frizzy hair, etc. It didn't make the teasing any less heartless, of course, but I could see there was some objective basis for it, where I literally hadn't been able to see that before. The image processing template in my head had been modified by my emotional state.
I think there's some of that going on with those of us who find Dr. Maddow attractive: Our admiration for her intelligence, ideas, and passion affect how we evaluate her looks. But I don't think it's a simple matter of "confusing her face with her brain"; I think her luminous mind literally makes her more beautiful.
All that said, the main reason I brought her up in this thread, in the context of folks' revelations about their own sexual preferences, was that, notwithstanding that I think she goes overboard in calling herself mannish, I do there's a certain slightly masculine (call it androgynous, though in my experience that term is more often applied to feminine-looking men) character to her looks, and I nevertheless find her sexy. As I do other women with similar looks, and "masculine" cues such as short hair and androgynously styled glasses; I only mentioned Rachel Maddow (aside from the aforemention cheeky reference to the earlier thread) as an example I was sure everyone here knew.
You might think a straight male who expresses an attraction (albeit far from an exclusive one) to "boyish" women might be expressing a latent, repressed homosexual streak... but I honest don't think so in my case. It's just another example of what we've been discussing: The degree to which sexuality, sexual preference, and sexual attraction are related in complex, fluid, and sometimes confounding ways.
Flex (@658):
Maybe not.¹
¹ Hope that link works. If not, here, at least, are the lyrics.
We're going to talk about citizen science projects and writing lab reports today, and Son Spawn said "Yeah, mom, I know all about the scientific method - first you deny that it's true, then you deny that it's important, then you credit the wrong person with the discovery." Also we just saw the first hummingbird of the season.
I think panamorous is a great word and should be a button.
Kevin:
I think the liar part is part and parcel to the Christianist part.
Pappers? Schit? Damn. I can's splel tdoay, acn I?
@iambilly:
Ahh, you're right. How could I have forgotten.
I like boyishness. KWIM?
Yes and no, for me. People posing neutrally for pictures, devoid of any context - I agree with you. I don't care how inherently good-looking they are.
But if the picture captures something about them - something that sends me a message about, or gives me a window into, who they are - that can begin to help me form an attraction to them.
For example, in your case - those pictures you put up one time of your gloriously demented Easter(?) Picnic. Irreverent, imaginative, vivacious - these are all qualities I now attribute to you after seeing them.
Kevin:
Of course they do. That way they can punish children for using the wrong word.
When I was in sixth grade, we moved from an NPS town in Arizona to a Bible-belt town in Maryland. I played trumpet in the band (6th grade band) and we were preparing for our Christmas concert. Our first trumpeter, two days before the concert, comes into school with a huge blister on his lip. No way can he play. His solo got tossed to me (I mucked it up royally). I asked him what happened. He told me he had said "Oh, God," when he dropped a thirty-pound PTO next to his foot. His father dragged him into the house, pulled out a pickled home-grown Scotch Bonnet pepper, chopped up the pepper, and made him eat it. Piece by piece. It was hot enough to blister his tongue and his lip.
Today, we would call that child abuse. Back in '78, it was normal Bible-belt correction.
Sadly, it still is.
Oops... my link text at the bottom of #669 should've been Maybe notso... because the song at the linked song identifies bald-headed men as more manly than "big-haired boys."
iambilly (@671):
Funny, I had assumed that schit was a deliberate, filter-foiling faux misspelling. You shouldn't have outed yourself.
Haha! That's because they weren't pictures of me, but rather pictures of one of our ideas (collaboration between two of us actually). I just happened to be the model for the idea.
lol
@iambilly:
Oh, that's terrible. Good ol' Christian punishment is cruel and unusual.
I'm glad I don't shave because that'd make me an Abnormal Man™.
Go HERE. I've also got a question for you.