Just a reminder for those of you in the OKC area that I will be debating Steve Kern (infamous husband of infamous Sally Kern) on the topic of Intelligent Design tonight!
Some of Kerns homies advertised for the event too:
Oklahoma Conservative Political Action Committee
* THURSDAY EVENING - OKC AREA - Dr. Steve Kern, pastor of Olivet Baptist Church in OKC, will be debating an OU graduate student this Thursday evening, 7:00 p.m. on the question, "Should Intelligent Design be taught to our children in public schools? The debate will be held in the College Union on the campus of Oklahoma City Community College (OCCC), located just South of I-240 on May Avenue in OKC. The previous debate on a different subject produced a packed room, so you may want to arrive a little early. This will be an excellent opportunity to understand what Intelligent Design really is and what it is not. I doubt you will hear the truth of the matter from the graduate student.
... the graduate student...
I like that...
* Listed from least to most badass.
Of course you have to ask The Pastor which god did it...
and bring along the full text of the Dover trial with specific passages highlighted that show that ID is indeed creationism (religion) in wolf's clothing.
(sorry about the unasked advice...I would like to see the challange match though. It would be great)
*echo voice* "The Pastor vs The Graduate Student" */echo voice*
Kick some ass.
Of course you have to ask The Pastor which god did it...
Or you could ask a good question.
bring along the full text of the Dover trial
Since clueless judges are great arbiters of philosophy of science.
LOL jimnorth, thank God you're not in charge of the debate content.
Im going to add links as I get them (if I get more)--
OKC Atheists is going to Twitter the event:
Oooh! I'll read the tweets but if it gets recorded please put it up on the webbertoobs.
Since there is nothing but dishonest language behind intelligent design it shouldn't be difficult to show Mr. Kern up for the idiot he is.
The near-impossible task will be to argue to his lackeys that he was defeated, as facts seem to hold no relevance to the id/creationist crowd.
No surprise, Rev. Kern is Bad. Now who is Ugly? Maybe one of the Democrats in the legislature who lacked the courage to vote against the birther bill last year.
So is Bad feeling lucky? He clearly does not know his limitations.
Needs some Toshiro Mifune as the nameless samurai (Yojimbo, Sanjuro).
Show up in a facemask and a t-shirt with a big "G" on the chest. Best wishes.
Get 'em !
Abbie - Good luck, and kick some ass and make him cry like a little girl! :)
Best of luck Abby, Give them SCIENCE!
She'll be like Zen with the scabbards.
Someone should had told Bad not to show up to a duel with a water pistol.
Rev. Kern clearly did not comprehend the endogenous retrovirus material. I dare say that when he answered questions he was using decades old scripts. "It's still a virus."
I wish they had scheduled an hour's more time for the Q&A. I wanted to see Kern confronted with what he says does not exist: fossil intermediates. Anyone confronting Kern on this in the future should have the fossils guys prepare a few slides for when he brings it up.
Kern, not for the first time, claimed that all phyla appeared at once.
Kern read into the record a bunch of quote mined stuff. If memory serves correctly it includes: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part4.html#quote4.7
And yes Rev. Kern, we have an agenda: Teach science in science class.
Looking the handout Kern's people had on their table, yes Kern was using the L. Harrison Matthews quote. I would never had known from listening to Kern that the guy is long dead and remembered now largely because the creationists like to quote something he wrote so long ago.
I almost forgot, Kern used a variation of the following claim: Carbon-14 in Coal Deposits
Like Luke and Obi-wan Kenobi, the graduate student is armed with a laser (pointer)...
Abbie, I know you'll kick ass...thanks for doing this!!
You should have put on TGS' picture: it must be the radiation.
I would like to hear his reasoning of why, if "God is not a god of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33), the human chromosome #2 not only look exactly like what we would expect from the head-to-head fusion of the two ape chromosomes in terms of gene organization, but why we can also find remnants of the defunct (probably) internal telomeres and inactivated second centromere. It sure would seem confusing to anyone with a logical mind if goddidit.
I'd also like to hear why (if he believes in a "fall"), genomic evidence demonstrates quite clearly that death and disease clearly predated humans (even though sin supposedly brought them into the world).
Have fun, Abby. At least you have real facts and data on your side =P
Well, last night was sad/pathetic. I actually drastically changed what I said (I was planning on being *much* more aggressive) when it became apparent that Kern was *grossly* unprepared.
I almost felt sorry for him.
What stopped me, is that that stupid crazy ass bastard actually holds political sway in this state.
Its fucking disgusting.
But our crew had fun, they learned something, and I know you all will enjoy the vid... but when you really think about it... fucking disgusting.
Yup! Abbie, you did well. Kern's ignorance of evolution was obvious and he has not listened to the DI's lie that ID has nothing to do with religion. I could not help myself - after the debate I went up and challenged Kern about transitinal fossils (which hedenied existed). I tried to use obviously had not. His response was "I don't believe it." A view of the video when it is posted will reveal Kern's iognorance and incompetence to debate the topic.
whoops: error, something got dropped. I challenged him with whale evolution.
Your crew "learned something"? That sounds like devil-talk to me! BURN HER! Looking forward to the video (of the debate, not the burning which, of course, should be considered sarcasm)!
Yes, well done, Abbie. Vic also asked Kern if he had read any real science on evolution, particularly the fossil record, to which of course, he replied no. That was my question for the Q&A that didn't get asked. I wanted him to admit it to the audience, giving you another oppertunity. I must admit I was looking forward to a "death of a thousand cuts". You did, indeed, do him a kindness. Anyone so steadfastly proclaiming their willful ignoracne in a public forum is unworthy of such kindness. Still, very well done.
An outside journalists view of the debate:
To elaborate on what Dr. Hutchison said, Kern repeatedly claimed there are no fossil intermediates. He even said the Gould and Eldredge invented punctuated equilibrium to explain the lack of intermediates. The simple reality is that if Kern knew what PE even was he would dismiss it as microevolution.
The card I filled out challenged Kern on the fossil record, but that question was not chosen.
HB 1551 passed the Oklahoma House of Representatives 56-12 with 31 representatives "excused."
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf/2011-12 SUPPORT DOCUMENTS/votes/House/HB1551_VOTES.HTM
With this kind of margin and with most Democrats being cowards, the only hope is the Senate leadership killing it. If they don't it will probably pass and the governor will almost certainly sign it.
The bill will go to the Senate and the leadership there is not likely to stop it. If it goes to the Senate Ed Committee, where it should, it will likely be killed as the very similar SB 1742 (Brecheen) was by Sen. Halligan, Chair of the Ed Committee, former President of Oklahoma State, has killed such bills before. HOWEVER, should the bill be assigned to another committee so it would pass (something they often do), we could be in real trouble. Should it pass the Senate, the Governor would not veto, given the margin by which the bill passed in the House.
You can follow progress on this bill on the OESE web site (click my name on this post)and on my posts on DemOkie.com.
We have worked hard fighting this bill with lots of help from many individuals and organizations. We will likely ask again for messages to the appropriate committee, if necessary. Please help, if we ask for messages to be sent. Addresses for messages will be posted on the OESE web site.
For the past 11 years we (OESE and other groups) have been able to stop such bills, but this has been one of the toughest.
I read the news article about the debate, Abbie. You did an excellent job! You have my most sincere thanks for your willingness to fight against the religious like Kern and my father. (My father thought the teaching of evolution was a communist plot to make Americans stupid. If the "plot" was aimed at my father, the communists didn't need a "plot". ;-)
CONGRATULATIONS on a job well done!!!!
You absolutely destroyed his argument. The best part was when he "turned" into a Baptist Preacher, and started yelling. Too much pathos. Logic & reason prevailed. Excellent job. You are nothing but class. You have a new fan.
You also need "The Man from Nowhere" in the pics above.
Oh, and next time? No mercy!
A Biblos view of the debate:
Too stupid, or purposefully not getting some of my points to be 'offended'. Gee, why would I bring up Sally Kern when talking about politicians trying to get Creationism taught in a science classroom in Oklahoma? Why would I do that?
considering they have links to Sally Kern in the article as "related", it's clear THEY think she's a valid talking point.
Looking forward to the video!
Regarding VH's comment about Kern, it reminded me of the Dawkins interview with Wendy Wright ("Concerned" Women of America) and how she laughed in his face when he suggested that she wander down to the Natural History museum and look at the fossils.
She didn't want to know. Like Kern said, "I don't (want to) believe it!"
We have names for people like Kern down here in Texas, but they are too impolite to print in such a fine, family-oriented blog!
Abbie, you are debating with an adult that still believes in fairy tales. There is no way for that not to end badly.
Really looking forward to seeing this!
Well done, Abbie, eagerly waiting for the video...
Why would I do that?
Gender Traitor do what she do.
Are your PowerPoints available?
PLEASE put this video on youtube
Give thanks to God, Pastor Steve, that when She made you a fool, She gave you a fool's face.
When I was listening the debate, it did occur to me that he looked like someone who underestimated his opponent. It only makes following debacle even more enjoyable to watch.