The Framing Critique (Dawkins-Myers-Expelled!-Gate)

Here is an updated set of links to postings on the critique of Myers and Dawkins' response to Myers-Dawkins-Expelled!-Gate. The point of these links is to provide quick access to the critiques coming from The Intersection and Framing Science blogs, and responses to them. I'm not going to keep updating this entry, so if you have any links please add them in the comments.

If your comment gets moderated it is probably because links with comments get tossed automatically in the dungeon, sometimes. I'll be checking the dungeon now and then and freeing such links.

It all started here:


A large number of reactions to this occurred and are pointed to here

Dawkins Review of the movie.

The Framing Crackdown. In these posts, Framing-symps tell Myers and Dawkins to sit down and be quiet:

This Controversy HELPS Ben Stein, People
Expelled Screenwriter Wants to Give PZ and Atheist Followers a "Group Hug"
Expelled For Suppression?
Why the PZ Myers Affair is Really, Really Bad for Science

Response by PZ:
I'm supposed to sit down and shut up?
Funny...he's not shutting up!
My tirade (hey, this is my blog, I get to put this near the top!): Myers-Dawkins-Expelled-gate: Mooney and Nisbet, Framers of the Absurd, Have Stepped Over a Line and Owe an Apology

Other Responses:
Laelaps: Nisbet to Myers, Dawkins: "Shut yer traps!"
Afarensis: The Fallacy of the Excluded Middle: A Response to Mooney and Nisbet
Respectful Insolence: The Dawkins-Myers incident: Sometimes it's necessary to break the frame
Stranger Fruit: My thoughts on Nisbet
Evolutionblog: Nisbet Says Myers and Dawkins Hurt the Cause. Yawn.
Pure Pedantry: The Myers-Dawkins Incident: Can't we all just get along?
Denialism Blog: A history of denialism - the ancients
Respect Astrology
Entertaining Research: Why Nisbet's gag order reeks of authoritarianism
Cosmic Variance: Politicians and Critics
The Uncredible Hallq:Matt Nisbet is a dishonest scumbag

This is a re-emergence of the Framing Debate between, on one hand, Chris and Matt and a few others, and on the other hand, lots of people. The debate culminated last year in a Smackdown at the Bell Museum, in Minneapolis, with PZ Myers and Yours Truly on the correct, righteous side and Chris and Matt defeated on the incorrect and wrong side.

The early part of this framing debate is well documented in Coturnix's One Stop Shopping post on framing, here

Cotrunix's list does not follow the debate to the end, so you also need to read all of the framing posts on my old blog and my new blog.

This should take you about five or six days if you don't have anything else to do. Please report back with your comments.

More like this

I must confess to spending way too much time following the whole thing. I've always thought PZ has always worked himself up into a false dochotomy over framing but was actually shocked at how Matt basically told him to "shut up".

My question to Matt (and I suppose I should post it there but truthfully it's only rhetorical)... What did you think PZ Myers' reaction would be when you tell him to "pipe down"?

I think I was writing mine at the same time that the Hoofnagles were writing theirs, but I have a call out to Phil Plait to sit down and shut up when it comes to Astrology.

The astrologers get hurt feelings, too.

This whole framing thing is popping up in science history; there seems to be a movement afoot to show that all enlightenment scientists were Believers as well as Scientists; see `Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction', edited by Gary Ferngren, and `Science and Religion: 1450-1900,' edited by Richard G Olson.

Well, a Beagle Project Post ... THAT will get updated, of course. (This PM)

Me: "No, factician, that's me. :) ..."

What I meant is that it's all about getting attention for me, er, my blog. Not that I'm shamelessly blog-whoring or anything like that. Wait a minute ...