Remember Alan Yurko?
To remind those of you not familiar with this particularly odious excuse for a human being, I'll briefly relate who he is and why he's so vile. Alan Yurko is a baby killer, pure and simple. He shook his 10-week-old son to death. Normally, such a pitiful excuse for a human being would not be "worthy" of comment, much less admiration, but not to the antivaccine movement. Yurko was sentenced to life in prison without parole for his crime but somehow managed to find himself the "hero" of a campaign
I first learned of this vile concept when I learned of the case of Alan Yurko. Yurko gained “fame” (if you can call it that) when he was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the murder of his 10-week-old son, who was shaken to death. Somehow, Yurko became the centerpiece of a campaign (Free Yurko) that featured as the centerpiece of its argument for Yurko’s innocence the claim that shaken baby syndrome (SBS) is in realty “vaccine injury" and that Yurko's son died not of injuries sustained by vigorous shaking but by "vaccine injury." Unfortunately, ultimately Yurko was released early, not because the courts agreed with the lie that it was vaccine injury, not SBS, that killed Yurko’s son. Rather, it was because apparently the coroner’s office where the autopsy was done on the dead baby was the most shoddily run morgue ever and incompetent coroner ever. As Australian skeptic Peter Bowditch put it:
I want you to think about a dead baby. This baby was ten weeks old when he died. The autopsy revealed bleeding around the brain, in the eyes and in the spinal column. There were bruises on the sides of his head. Another thing that the autopsy showed was four broken ribs. These fractures had started to heal, and therefore indicated a pattern of physical abuse prior to the date of death. The father admitted to holding the baby by his feet and hitting him shortly before he died. I now want to you to form an opinion of the father. If you are the sort of person who opposes vaccination, you would see this man as a hero. You would see him as a martyr to the cause and would try to get him released from prison. In a breathtaking demonstration of what it can mean to believe that the end justifies the means, the anti-vaccination liars have adopted Alan Yurko as a symbol that they can use to frighten parents into refusing vaccination for their children. You can read a loathsome justification for this murderer at http://www.woodmed.com/ShakenBabyAlan.htm.
I've discussed the case of Alan Yurko and the antivaccine movement's most shameless vile lie (namely, that SBS is a "misdiagnosis" for vaccine injury) in detail before on more than one occasion. It's a "concept" that one Harold Buttram appears to have championed more than anyone else, although others, like Catherine Frompovich and F. Edward Yazbak, have also promoted this concept.
Let's put it this way. The myth that SBS is really "vaccine injury" is actually so detestable that even some of the most rabid antivaccine activists out there generally won't touch it with the proverbial ten-foot cattle prod. Even the merry band of antivaccine propagandists at that wretched hive of scum and quackery, Age of Autism, don't mention this "hypothesis," and they tend to ignore the occasional commenter who does. Apparently even AoA editors have at least a little bit of a sense of shame, and I haven't heard much in a long time about others trying to avoid paying for having injured or killed their babies by claiming that SBS is really vaccine injury.
Just a few years ago Tonya and Elwood Sadowsky believed that life could not get any better after Tonya gave birth to a beautiful baby girl Amanda. For the first time ever the couple were happier than they ever thought possible. Sadly, their happiness was cut short when aged just four months old Amanda died unexpectedly. Elwood was immediately arrested and charged for his daughter's murder because he was caring for his daughter at the time she was taken ill.
Amazingly, in June 2007, without ever having a trial, Elwood Sadowsky was jailed for life for Shaken Baby Syndrome. According to wife Tonya, Elwood was forced into taking a guilty plea a few days before the trial was due to have started. He was threatened by the prosecution and emotionally blackmailed by his own lawyers. This was due to the fact that his lawyers did not know how to defend him! Tonya says:
"They literally didn't know anything about 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' and believed the doctors' diagnosis which was: homicidal blunt force trauma."
Amanda died from multiple skull fractures and the triad of injuries associated with Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS) which are Retinal haemorrhages (bleeding into the linings of the eyes); subdural haemorrhages (bleeding beneath the dural membrane); Encephalopathy (damage to the brain affecting function).
Anyone familiar with the case of Alan Yurko can see where this is going, and that is indeed exactly where it went. The next part of Tonya's story consists of a citation of one John D. Lloyd, Ph.D., M.Erg.S., CPE, CBIS, who seems to have some legitimacy in that he has some peer-reviewed publications, eighteen on PubMed. None of them, as far as I can tell, are related to SBS. He does, however, appear on a directory of expert witnesses, which suggests to me that a great deal of his "professional activity" is to testify on behalf of whoever pays him. None of that means he's a bad guy or not a decent scientist, but when it comes to SBS, I do find it rather odd that he has several publications on other topics related to ergonomics and brain injury but somehow hasn't managed to score a single peer-reviewed publication supporting his contention that shaking cannot produce enough force to cause the constellation of injuries associated with SBS. In fact, looking at his CV, the only references we find are as follows:
- Lloyd, JD. Biomechanical Evaluation of Head Kinematics During Infant Shaking Versus Pediatric Activities of Daily Living. Submitted to a conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome, 2012.
- Lloyd JD. Head Kinematics Associated with Short Falls in Children. Submitted to a conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome, 2012.
- Lloyd JD. Biomechanical Evaluation of Shaken Impact Syndrome. Submitted to a conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome, 2012.
Let's put it this way. Although it's not uncommon for people to list publications they have "in preparation" or "submitted" to journals, I've never seen a CV listing abstracts submitted to conferences. Why? Because abstracts are the lowest form of scientific publication. I could easily whip off a list of abstracts submitted to various conferences, having submitted the abstracts. I might even get them accepted, too, because the bar for acceptance for abstracts is much lower than it is for getting a manuscript published in a peer-reviewed journal. Indeed, some conferences basically accept every abstract submitted for at least a poster presentation, barring obvious problems with them. I also find it rather curious that Dr. Lloyd doesn't actually mention which conference he's submitted his three abstracts to. If I were going to list on my CV abstracts I've submitted but that have not yet been accepted, I'd also include the full name of the conference, such as the American College of Surgeons Clinical Congress (which I just attended last week, in case anyone wondered why my blogging activity took a dive towards mid-week), the American Association for Cancer Research, the American Society of Clinical Oncology, the Society of Surgical Oncology, and the like. One wonders if Dr. Lloyd submitted to the Twelfth International Conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome/Abusive Head Trauma or the Twelfth International Conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS)/Abusive Head Trauma. Or was it this conference?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Now, I realize that we don't know everything there is to know about SBS. Nor do I normally have a problem with research that questions the prevailing hypothesis, if the research is well done. However, when I see someone like Dr. Lloyd agree to work for a defense team that is using the claim that vaccines are the cause of SBS, then I have a problem:
Examining the timeline of this case an extremely important fact emerges. It is obvious to even the untrained eye that this baby suffered adverse reactions after each vaccination. Her first possible reaction was noted within 24 hours of the Hepatitis B vaccine which she received at birth. Tonya said:
"When she got the Hep B, I wasn't told. She was wheeled into my room SCREAMING her full head off, thrust into my arms with the comment, "She's upsetting the other (inmates) babies in the nursery".
"She was jaundiced by the next day."
In his report Dr Buttram wrote:
"On the next day, Feb. 17th, according to mother's notes, Amanda was brought in to her from the nursery screaming, as "she was bothering the other babies in the nursery," suggestive of an encephalalitic reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine, something rarely recognized for its true nature."
Leading to this speculation:
Did Amanda suffer from this reaction and was this the reason that baby Amanda was so distressed? If so the injuries found just weeks later may have been caused by the Hepatitis B vaccine, however, this possibility this was never investigated.
Note that none of this explains how Amanda got multiple skull fractures, much less the injury pattern consistent with traumatic injuries of the sort caused by shaking and trauma seen in SBS. Does Dr. Lloyd really want to hitch his wagon to a group that tries to argue that vaccines can somehow cause fractures? Those must be some magical vaccines! I know, I know, Elwood admits that he dropped Amanda, but in general his story as described in this article doesn't add up. Dr. Lloyd's argument seems to be somewhat contradictory as well. He points out that falls from as low as two and a half feet can produce fatal head injuries, but then claims that it's not possible to shake a baby hard enough to cause the constellation of injuries seen in SBS. The defense then argues that Elwood suffered from a condition that caused him to black out and pass out periodically (which, if true, tells me that he should never be carrying a baby). Perhaps the most ludicrous is the claim that somehow the use of oxytocin to induce Tonya's labor resulted in brain damage in Amanda of the sort seen in the postmortem. Taken as a whole, the defense case sounds like a typical antivaccine case trying to exonerate a parent accused of shaking his baby to death: Throw out all sorts of pseudoscientific and quacky nonsense and see if any of it sticks. He dropped the baby! But he has a disease that causes him to black out. But the baby was "vaccine-injured" and her mom's labor was induced with oxytocin, which caused brain injury! It's an "everything but the kitchen sink" defense.
It's not clear from this article whether Dr. Lloyd was hired by the defense, but it's probably a good bet that he was, given his consulting and testimony business. If I were him, I'd advise him to drop these clients like the proverbial hot potato. While it's true that when a baby dies of traumatic brain injury consistent with SBS it is not always clear how it happened and every defendant accused of a crime like child abuse deserves a vigorous defense, just as all people accused of any crime do, if Dr. Lloyd wants to save whatever scientific respectability he has, he would do well to run, not walk, from the likes of Harold Buttram, Viera Scheibner, Michael D. Innis, and the rest, all of whom are so far on the fringe that most antivaccinationists tend to stay far, far away from their views with respect to SBS.
I'd suggest that it's not only bad for Dr. Lloyd's reputation to be associated with such people, but that it could well be bad for his business. Even if he has not been hired by the Sadowskys (which seems unlikely but must be considered to be possible), this hurts him. After all, even if Elwood Sadowsky actually did only accidentally drop Amanda, as his defense claims, the arguments being used to try to exonerate him consist of the rankest pseudoscience argued by the rankest of quacks, and that's what and whom Dr. Lloyd is associating himself with. It could be very bad for his credibility to associate with such cranks.
Even worse for him, it could be bad for business. After all, credibility is key to being an expert witness.
And they call people like Dr. Offit a monster.......the irony & horror of it.
Wait, he admits to at least dropping the baby in temporal relationship to her death, she suffered from cranial fractures but it's the vaccines?
Humans are bastards.
Even the merry band of antivaccine propagandists at that wretched hive of scum and quackery, Age of Autism, don’t mention this “hypothesis,” and they tend to ignore the occasional commenter who does.
John Stone is still down with it, all the same.
I think, when the "vaccines did it" people were asked about the bone fractures in the Alan Yurko case, their response was instantaneous scurvy caused by poor Vitamin C absorption caused by the vaccine. Seriously.
Amazingly, in June 2007, without ever having a trial, Elwood Sadowsky was jailed for life for Shaken Baby Syndrome.
Actually, he got 18 to life (PDF), not that I would expect this crowd to be particularly forthcoming. I'm sure the parole board will be interested that he tried to turn right around and deny guilt when he comes up in 13 or so years, kind of like he told the cops that he "tripped" and later turned around and told the appeals court that, no, now it's a possible "seizure."
And, of course, he's from... North Olmsted.
And re "without ever having a trial," one might call attention to paragraph 26 of the appeal decision:
The defendant made a knowing, intelligent, voluntary plea after he was fully informed of his rights, options and the consequences. The case was set for trial, the witnesses appeared and were ready to testify, the defendant received full and extensive discovery of the evidence and when it was time to call the jury into the courtroom, the defendant plead guilty.
The entire thing is curious in that the only likely effect would be to lengthen his time in the stir were Sadowsky to actually endorse the effort. Almost like the Munchausen by Proxy that author Christina England has already had a run-in with.
Hello! Long time lurker (Years by now!), first time poster. Just wanted to take the time to say how much I appreciate and enjoy reading the blog!
A couple of months ago we had a case here in Israel where a father shook his twin children (A boy and a girl), the boy dies in a few weeks later and the girl survived. And what was the father's defense? Vaccines did it - just infuriating.
Link - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4183912,00.html
(A bit think on details, but it's the only piece in English I could find about it)
Then again, considering they have the same lawyer as the now-disgraced former president Katsav, such a vile defense was to be expected.
And he has an expert from abroad to bolster his case, one Viera Schibner (http://www.mako.co.il/news-channel2/Channel-2-Newscast/Article-26e4f91b… - in Hebrew).
Going over her Wikipedia page gives a pretty good idea of what she believes and how much of an "expert" she really is.
The reporter (Who credulously recites a study involving 100000 babies showing a link between vaccines and skull\retina trauma) said that she's even made a pledge to come to Israel and testify on their behalf.
One ray of hope here is that the public in Israel at large doesn't buy it. Though the same can't be said about American Israeli expatriates...
Despicable. A fair assumption can, in my mind, be made for some kind of severe psychotic episode in certain SBS-cases, but it would be impossible to say anything specifically about this one. What I can say is that I find the act of covering up SBS to promote the cause of antivax is among the most disgusting practices I know of.
That group of "things" also includes the possibility of not having a trial. That someone can plea guilty and avoid a trial is a gaping hole in the legal system, and a clear breach of basic legal ethics and due process. But when a legal system is completely riddled with gaping holes, I suppose one might think that´s a good thing. Like Swiss cheese.
Anyway - as all casses involving children, absoloutly horrid. I´ve pretty much stopped reading them unless I need to through work.
Her first possible reaction was noted within 24 hours of the Hepatitis B vaccine which she received at birth.
So Amanda was crying within 24 hours of being born, therefore vaccine injury? I am not an expert but there does seem to be a confounding factor here.
Dr. Lloyd then claims that it’s not possible to shake a baby hard enough to cause the constellation of injuries seen in SBS.
The question does not lend itself to convenient experiment... one can kill any number of infant monkeys with calibrated acceleration, but the validity of the animal model is still moot.
But it doesn't really help the Defense, if they're arguing that "The pattern of cerebral tearing and bleeding is not consistent with shaking; my client could only have inflicted the injuries by punched his daughter or swinging her against the wall."
And he has an expert from abroad to bolster his case, one Viera Schibner
Viera Scheibner (retired micropaleontologist) is a familiar name here. Note that Orac included her in his list of cranks who are extreme, so unencumbered by scruple, and
"so far on the fringe that most antivaccinationists tend to stay far, far away from their views with respect to SBS".
hdb @ 4 PM: Your final "defense argument" was succinct, well stated, and summarizes the whole damn thing.
Medical Veritas (the horrible pseudo-journal) hosted a number of papers on shaken baby syndrome.
If you search through you will find a section called "A. The State’s Wild Medical Hypothesis "
In that section is only a placeholder. Yes--they published it without the author finishing it (shows you how much they care about facts, peer review and the like).
[Insert facts showing the State’s SBS opinions and/or minor falls and/or the alternate explanation of vaccine reactions.]
Yeah. Basically, "I'll get around to filling this in about how SBS is really a vaccine reaction". But he didn't.
It is difficult to express how disgusted I am with that "journal".
In that section is only a placeholder. Yes–they published it without the author finishing it
I don't think that's what's going on, not that it makes this publication any less strange. It appears to be intended as boilerplate for a legal filiing, i.e., you're supposed to fill in the blanks. And somebody really needs to review the Harvard Bluebook.
Oh, and, hilariously, the affiliation given for the author, Kent Holcomb, is the Arizona State Prison Complex.
Here is Meryl Dorey on Shaken Baby Syndrome, or as her husband joked, "Shaken Maybe Syndrome". There is no bottom to these people's barrels.
There is a Free Elwood Facebook page. At a guess I'd say Christina England has something to do with it - she's being referenced enough https://www.facebook.com/FreeElwood?ref=ts&fref=ts
Yah, not a pretty record for this MV author. One might wonder how they found each other.
HDB: I'm not a parent and never plan to be one, but.. don't most babies cry within 24 hours of birth? Wouldn't there be something wrong with a baby that didn't cry within an HOUR of birth? Their defense stinks to high heaven.
but if you attack vaccines all is forgiven in some circles.
"This man has used his time in jail, to improve this Planet Earth. What a good man."
Parents will tell you that babies cry. A lot.
Babies that are hungry will cry until they are fed. Mothers that either a) Think that formula is poison. (not kidding) or b) Are waiting for their milk to come in (can take days) can testify that hungry babies will carry on nonstop.
If a woman has ordered that the newborn be not given a bottle of ANYTHING, her baby may well be screaming especially if she hasn't either nursed it or is producing nothing.
This creep also supplies the back-cover blurb for Buttram & England's SBS book. I'm sorry if this is already familiar, but I hadn't previously heard of this sexual predator, kidnapper, and book-endorser.
Jaundice in a newborn is not uncommon, and it can take a day or two to present. Connecting it to a vaccination and then to injuries consistent with child abuse is beyond reasonable.
The list of editors at Medical Veritas is quite a rogue's gallery, with one or two familiar names.
Worst of all, the Editor-in-Chief wears a bowtie.
Even worse, the website is HIDEOUS!
Worst of all, the Editor-in-Chief wears a bowtie.
Dollars will get you donuts that thing has a hook on the back.
@ herr dokto bimler:
Oh come on guys! He is wearing a dinner jacket thus necessitating the bowtie.
HOWEVER both are hideous.
We don't know if he wears a bowtie for office wear. I have seen that you know. Unfortunately.
I wasn't aware who he was before either. I just knew about the junk in medical veritas.
"we don't realize everything there is to know about SBS." Period. W-5 had a very interesting show regarding SBS cases that were formally overturned based on solid evidence and there is no agreement as to what SBS is or isn't.
Jen, just because we don't know everything about something, doesn't mean that what we do know is wrong and we can just invent stuff.
What we do know is that vaccines cannot cause the sort of injuries these dead babies have. Anyone who says the opposite is lying.
If a woman has ordered that the newborn be not given a bottle of ANYTHING, her baby may well be screaming especially if she hasn’t either nursed it or is producing nothing.
And even if you do give them formula, they still may have difficulty feeding properly. Some babies work it out fairly quickly; others can take days. That's totally normal, too, and why a full-term baby is usually a bit chubby -- it's insurance, since the "learn how to suckle" phase will likely involve some weight loss.
herr docktor bimler:
Worst of all, the Editor-in-Chief wears a bowtie.
But bowties are cool!
“we don’t realize everything there is to know about SBS.” Period. W-5 had a very interesting show regarding SBS cases that were formally overturned based on solid evidence and there is no agreement as to what SBS is or isn’t.
There have been some tragic cases where parents were falsely accused because either an unidentified third party (sibling, babysitter, visiting relative) was causing the injury, or the child had a rare underlying disorder, such as "glass baby syndrome". (Very scary disease, that one, more formally called osteogenesis imperfecta. For another Dr Who reference, you can see an example of this in the serials "Vengence on Varos" and "Trial of a Time Lord: Mindwarp". The alien Sil was played by Nabil Shaban, an actor with severe physical deformities due to osteogenesis imperfecta.)
But just because we don't know everything about SBS doesn't mean we should think vaccines are the cause, or not vigorously investigate cases where a child has died with traumatic injuries, just because it might not be murder. There are lot of things that can be handwaved, but it strains credulity to think a vaccine could cause a pattern of broken bones in various stages of healing. You might as well blame an alignment of the planets. We can at least rule out the presposterous, surely?
BTW, one interesting thing to chew on: the hospital where I had my babies participated in a study to see whether education would be helpful in reducing cases of SBS. Before discharging the new mother, parents would be shown a video explaining SBS, explaining that babies will make you really really angry at times, and that there is no shame in recognizing this, putting the baby in the crib, and walking away to cool off for a bit. Never shake them, because you might seriously injure or even kill them. Parents had the option of declining the video and signing a piece of paper indicating their choice. They then followed the families to see how many babies died suddenly. The number was dramatically lower; I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but it really was dramatic. And they were including all deaths, not just those ruled homicides, on the presumption that we can't rely on police reports for a diagnosis. So they made it policy to continue showing the video. I got to see it. It was well made, I thought, and included heartbreaking personal testimony by parents who *had* shaken and injured their babies, and getting to see footage of one child who had survived but was severely handicapped due to brain injury.
If educating people not to shake their babies dramatically lowers the rate of sudden infant death, in the absence of any other interventions, I think there's fairly good reason to think shaking can indeed kill babies.
... because I really hate trying to blame vaccines for physical injuries to an infant. Many times they claim the vaccines caused seizures and those caused the broken bones.
When my son was two days old he had seizures. Lots of them. They started small, but increased in frequency, length and intensity until he arrived at emergency department of the children's hospital, where he was given phenobarbital. After he was weaned off of that after a year, he got very sick from a now vaccine preventable disease and had a Grand Mal seizure. So back to that hospital's emergency department.
None of those seizures, and they were frightening, broke any bones. The only way I know that someone could break bones during a seizure is if it made them fall down a flight of stairs or collapse on a sidewalk. But I don't really see many infants walking on sidewalks or stairs.
By the way, if the baby was having seizures is there any record of the parents call 911? Because that is what we did, how they did not?
Yup John Stone and Isabella Thomas have both commented on/defended parents accused of SBS...
Scroll on down to see who has signed the "We support Andrew Wakefield" petition...
Good grief! Apparently George Bush Jnr has signed it. Not to mention St Andy himself. And what a surprise - Mark Geier! Whoever Rita Brosnan is, she's signed it 5 times - and I see the ghastly Meryl Dorey's there, but not Mickey Mouse - yet. What a pitiful affair!
For another Dr Who reference, you can see an example of this in the serials “Vengence on Varos” and “Trial of a Time Lord: Mindwarp”. The alien Sil was played by Nabil Shaban, an actor with severe physical deformities due to osteogenesis imperfecta.
I might have guessed that there would be a Dr Who connection.
Nabil Shaban is also an exponent of the theory that the Viking leader known as Ivarr the Boneless -- one of the leaders of the Great Heathen Invasion of England in 865 -- was an early sufferer from osteogenesis imperfecta, hence his cognomen. Shaban made a documentary about it, persuading a group of Viking reenactors to carry him on a shield into battle as a war-leader:
He's promoting Ivar as a positive role model that will shift young people with osteogenesis imperfecta away from lying around in the victim role feeling sorry for themselves, and will instead inspire them to develop great skills of generalship so they too can rally a Viking army and conquer great swathes of England.
A bit OT, but Orac may be pleased to see this:
Media Watch is the weekly program that - as the name suggests - keeps a sharp eye on the Australian media. In this segment, Jonathan Holmes rubbishes a press report about a measles outbreak in Sydney, where Meryl Dorey is interviewed for fake "balance". He says straight out that in a case like this, no balance is possible - one side is right and the other wrong, and vaccines do not cause autism as claiemd by Dorey. It was refreshing to have this said so bluntly.
I see that '1) or 1=@@version-- 1' and variations thereof have signed it many times :-)
nz sceptic - What's got my gander for the moment is that IAS, after a long silence, is writing more nonsense like this about herd immunity:
I notice they've now stopped saying who the writer is, in addition to blocking comments. Notice also how the one link to a "pro" vaccine site is indirect, via a proxy. You can't help but think they're trying to avoid letting the author of that post know they've written about them. Toying with getting out a post about herd immunity, not that it'll have any impact any more, what with their efforts to ‘shield’ their readers from (read: hide from their readers) 'sensible' sources of discussion about vaccines.
For sure one of the keys to preventing SBS is education. That's an important part of baby classes here. It's not just a video, we talk about it directly, with local parents providing their input. What we teach (I volunteer) is that it's normal to have the feelings of frustration that lead to sbs, you just have to deal with them properly.
No to Yurko: the most jaw-droppingly amazing thing about him is that while he denies the SBS, he ADMITS to holding the baby upside down and hitting it.
As if that is more acceptable.
See above. As a parent, I actually am far more understanding og how sbS can occur - it doesn't need a bad person, just a lack of education. It's not acceptable, of course, but ii can understand how it happens.
OTOH, hitting the child is NOT understandable, nor somehow a consolation. That is a deliberate act of a monster.
But anti-vaxxers say, "My hero!"
sometimes I'd like to pick up one of these people who shake baby to death and give them a good shaking in turn. Likewise the jerks who prostitute themselves out for any lawyer and get on the stand and babble any nonsense -- whatever it takes -- to give evidence in favor of their client's defendant. Just so long as it pays.
First, I have thoroughly researched the biomechanical concept of shaken baby syndrome and found the hypothesis to have no scientific basis. I have published a manuscript, titled "Biomechanics of Head Kinematics Associated with Infant Shaking Compared with Pediatric Activities of Daily Living", which has been peer-reviewed and is available online through the Journal of Forensic Biomechanics.
Secondly, regarding the abstracts listed on my CV -- these have been submitted to the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. They are listed on my CV for the purpose of keeping track of my work, which is the purpose of a CV
Thirdly, asa biomechanist the entire focus of my work is on biomechanics. I have no opinion to offer regarding vaccinations, since I am not an expert in that field. But as a Biomechanist, I can tell you that the fall experienced by Amanda from the arms of Elwood was more than sufficient to cause skull fractures. This opinion I base on my own research, which I hope to present at the AAFS conference, as well as the work of others, including Dr. Webber, who used infant cadavers in his research.
Finally, I have been retained by both prosecution and defense in cases of alleged abusive head trauma. My opinion is always grounded in science.
Over here we had a case where a mother strangled her baby daughter and then claimed it was abducted by an unknown party. When this was disproved, she claimed that she accidentally dropped the baby. It seems that we are a bit backward here, because suprisingly enough, the mother _has not_ claimed vaccine injury yet.
I notice that no one has commented on this observation by Tonya Sadowsky about her newborn:
“She was jaundiced by the next day.”
From the Wikipedia entry on Neonatal Jaundice:
This condition is common in newborns affecting over half (50 -60%) of all babies in the first week of life.
It's caused by lysis of fetal red cells beyond the capacity of the liver to process the hemoglobin pigments. It's not caused by Hepatitis vaccine
Sorry, Mooselet, didn't see your comment before adding mine.
Here, for your reading *enjoyment* is Tonya Sadowsky's website, named after her murdered baby:
That website is disgusting.
First, I have thoroughly researched the biomechanical concept of shaken baby syndrome and found the hypothesis to have no scientific basis.
My opinion is always grounded in science.
Dr. Lloyd, if you were really interested in the science behind SBS, you would have noted that many have found the model you used in your articles to be overly simplistic and inaccurate. The article you present here is neither thorough nor conclusive. For those interested in the actual biomechanics of this complicated syndrome, give this article a read:
Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find. That being said, however, I'd encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get there. Otherwise you're no better than what you're accusing me and anyone who supports me to be. Have a nice day. www.TheAmandaTruthProject.com
So much criticism and yet you intentionally ignore all of the science that is shining a light on the seriously flawed THEORY of SBS. Vitamin D deficiency absolutely leads to broken bones as does osteogenesis imperfecta among other medical issues. If these babies are not being given a full work up, don't assume the parent or caregiver is guilty. It's more than just vaccines.
[neonatal jaundice] is caused by lysis of fetal red cells beyond the capacity of the liver to process the hemoglobin pigments.
Yep. And if the baby arrived slightly before term, it's even more likely to happen.
Been there, done that...
The only way I know that someone could break bones during a seizure is if it made them fall down a flight of stairs or collapse on a sidewalk.
Well, an infant can also broke bones when suffering from pertussis or tetanus. Fortunately, both are vaccine-prevent...
Anj/Calli Arcale: Thank you for the additional points. What I was trying to suggest was that a baby who was NOT crying (unless the baby was asleep) wouldn't be turned over to the parents, since that is usually an indication of lung troubles or other serious issues.
HDB: He’s promoting Ivar as a positive role model that will shift young people with osteogenesis imperfecta away from lying around in the victim role feeling sorry for themselves, and will instead inspire them to develop great skills of generalship so they too can rally a Viking army and conquer great swathes of England.
As a woman living in a state where about 80% of the population is descended from Vikings, I think this is a great-and overdue- idea. The Asgard pantheon is in great need of revival, and the anemic English music scene could only benefit from the firm hand of the Vikings and liberal libations of mead.
Vitamin D deficiency absolutely leads to broken bones as does osteogenesis imperfecta among other medical issues.
Which are serious medical conditions, and would have been noted at the well baby check ups.
I would also ask Mr. Lloyd where in his education he actually studied biology, anatomy or even structural mechanics. Because I am not finding it here:
Ph.D.; Ergonomics; Loughborough University, England; 2002
B.Sc.(Honors); Ergonomics, Loughborough University of Technology, England; 1992
D.P.S.; Loughborough University of Technology, England; 1991
Certification and Registration:
CPE (#725); Certificant, Board of Certification in Professional Ergonomics; 1995
M.Erg.S.; Member of The Ergonomics Society Professional Register; 1996
CBIS - Certified Brain Injury Specialist; 2010
What I see is mostly physical/occupational therapy training, and nothing to do with high forces. Especially in regards to infants. What I do see is an ambulance chasing but unqualified "expert witness", just like the de-licensed Dr. Mark Geier.
@ Dr John Lloyd
the abstracts listed on my CV — these have been submitted to the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. They are listed on my CV for the purpose of keeping track of my work, which is the purpose of a CV
Yes and no. You should make a clear separation between the work which has been - or is about to be - validated, i.e. published in peer-reviewed journals, and the work which you have been invited to present.
And in the latter case, you should precise where you presented, so people can assess how prestigious and selective the lecture's place was.
Anything else is just puffing up your feathers.
OK, and now I'm going for the Godwin point.
Your main argument, if I understood correctly, is that the force a full-grown human adult is willing to apply to an infant is insufficient to provoke the damages seen in SBS.
Do you know that some people argue seriously that a woman wearing tight-fitting jeans cannot claim to have been raped, because such a pair of pants cannot be removed by force, without her consent?
Do you know that some people (actually here on this blog) argue seriously that the Holocaust didn't happen, because the nazis were too nice to force 80 or so "untermensch" people to fit themselves into a small room?
Do you see a pattern, here?
Vitamin D and OI are never checked for in well baby visits. Nor in the immediate blood tests run on newborns. Please do SOME research before you post.
@ Tonya: I'll give you credit for your colossal arrogance coming here to defend your husband who murdered your baby.
"Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find."
The point is Tonya, what study have you found in any journal, anywhere, to change our minds?
"That being said, however, I’d encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get there. Otherwise you’re no better than what you’re accusing me and anyone who supports me to be."
I've been to your site and read all the "stuff" you posted there, and I am accusing you of supporting a murderer.
"Have a nice day."
I actually was having a nice day, until a read the stomach-churning crap on website. One question for you, Tonya. How do you sleep at night, knowing that you support a murderer and are asking for donations to support your "cause" to free the man who murdered Amanda?
@ Jennifer: Have you seen Amanda's autopsy report?
Jaundice in the newborn affects 50-60 % of babies and it is noted in the infant's chart in the newborn nursery.
I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find.
I opened a few textbooks. "50-60% of full-term infants" is the consensus.
Hepatitis B vaccine is a killed-virus vaccine, and can't cause a Hepatitis infection. I also can't find any reputable sources that claim jaundice is associated with Hepatitis B vaccination. And, yes, about 50% of newborns have some
degree of jaundice. It's in the medical literature, and I've seen it during several years of residency and family medicine practice. This was before Hepatitis B was given to neonates.
Are you also claiming that skull fractures are caused by vaccines, too? I won't go to your website, lilady has given me fair warning.
Tonya @ 3:43 pm – actually, newborn jaundice is very common, especially for breastfed babies (who are usually consuming colostrum not formula for the first few days). A quick poke around has not led me to any numbers on it, but if I have time later I’ll continue searching.
Can you provide a specific citation for jaundice as a side effect of the Hep B vaccine? I don’t see it on the VIS ( http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-hep-b.pdf) dated 2/2/12. I’m curious as to what the mechanism would be for causing jaundice, as there isn’t any virus in the vaccine (just some of the proteins which provoke an immune response; how is the liver involved?).
Jennifer, I did. And if the child had easily broken bones that young in life a DNA test would have found the genetic cause. And it should have been done at autopsy if they are now using it as a defense. Like in this case.
I have also checked on several articles on PubMed on Shaken Baby Syndrome. It seems that there is lots more known that you think.
I am also baffled on how Mr. Lloyd got became a Certified Traumatic Brain Specialist in 2010. Looking at his CV I see before then he was:
08/09-09/11: Associate Director, VA RR&D Center of Excellence ‘Maximizing Rehabilitation Outcomes’, James A. Haley VA Hospital, Tampa, FL
07/02-07/09 Director, Research Laboratories, VA RR&D Research Enhancement Award Program (REAP), Tampa, FL.
2004 Vicon Motion Systems, Inc., Vicon BodyBuilder & Polygon training workshop
2009 National Instruments, LabView Introductory and Advanced workshops
I can accept, intellectually, that there are undiagnosed cases of babies suffering from a deficit of Vit-C or Vit-D, or some debilitating, brittle-bone disease. Actually, I have no doubt such cases exist, given how frail and error-prone human beings are.
Not being a doctor, and not knowing how likely it is to miss symptoms of these deficiencies/diseases, either during an usual visit or during the autopsy, obviously I cannot have a definitive opinion on this.
Although I have the feeling a deficit in either C or D vitamins leading to illness should manifest in specific symptoms before the baby dies of it.
But in the two cases quoted by Orac, do you really believe, that there were cases of undiagnosed Vit-D deficiency? When the dad recognized he "dropped" the baby?
Hepatitis B vaccine is a killed-virus vaccine, and can’t cause a Hepatitis infection.
It is not even that, it is just protein made in baker's yeast. From the CDC Pink Book Chapter on Hepatitis B:
Recombinant vaccine is produced by inserting a plasmid containing the gene for HBsAg into common baker’s yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae). Yeast cells then produce HBsAg, which is harvested and purified. The recombinant vaccine contains more than 95% HBsAg protein (5 to 40 mcg/mL); yeast-derived proteins may constitute up to 5% of the final product, but no yeast DNA is detectable in the vaccine.
Eh, I missed this part:
you intentionally ignore all of the science that is shining a light on the seriously flawed THEORY of SBS.
Ah yes, it's just a THEORY.
Like evolution, global warming, gravity...
To quote Isaac Asimov, if you think that the people believing that the Earth is a perfect sphere (the short correct answer is it's a flattened sphere) are as wrong as the ones believing that the Earth is flat, then you are more wrong than any of them.
Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find. That being said, however, I’d encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get there. Otherwise you’re no better than what you’re accusing me and anyone who supports me to be. Have a nice day.
No Tonya, Hepatitis b vaccine does not cause jaundice but hepatitis disease sure does. If you make claims such as you do then you should be providing the requisite citations. And I'm not going to your self-serving website; I'll take the warnings here seriously as I'd like to keep my bile where it belongs.
You'll note, Heliantus, that Jennifer failed to link to any of the "science" that was exposing the flaws of the "THEORY of SBS." Do you think some of them were presented at the "Twelfth International Conference on Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS)/Abusive Head Trauma" that Orac linked to above?
She told me to do the research. Which I did, but the results do not jive with her claims.
Otherwise you’re no better than what you’re accusing me and anyone who supports me to be.
I don't know about "anyone who supports [you]," but you seem to be trying to shake a job as a paralegal out of the event.
trying to shake a job as a paralegal
I see what you do there. Bad Narad. Go to the naughty corner.
But The Thing told me it was an infection!!!
(Thanks for the correction, I made an incorrect assumption based on hasty reading)
Jennifer failed to link to any of the “science” that was exposing the flaws of the “THEORY of SBS.
I am SHOCKED, I tell you. SHOCKED.
I found Tonya Sadowsky on talk radio, defending the murderer of her child:
OK. Micke Maus just signed the petition. Next!
@Tonya - your husband killed your child, yet you are still defending him?
Kids, there are monsters.....and you just met one.
<i.I can accept, intellectually, that there are undiagnosed cases of babies suffering from a deficit of Vit-C or Vit-D, or some debilitating, brittle-bone disease.
I am happy to believe that miscarriages of justice occur with single-issue zealots seeing bone weakness in a case of infantile rickets, diagnosing it as child abuse, and railroading someone into prison. There seem to be people in the police and justice systems who *prefer* prosecuting such cases, on the theory that the absence of any actual crime makes it harder for the designated defendants to show their innocence.
And then you have the Vitamin-D Deficiency industry, where it is taken as an article of faith that "about 1/4 of all otherwise normal infants have evidence of infantile rickets while they are still in the womb". Perhaps someone else will have better luck than me at tracing the purported study on which this claim is based.
Also, another form of vit-D deficiency is autism! It's in Medical Hypotheses!
I actually listened to Tonya Sadowsky on the Talk Radio Blog on September 11, 2012.
~ 33 minutes into the 66 minute broadcast, Tonya now *claims* "in hindsight, after her murdering husband copped a plea that:
- She now *realizes* that her baby Amanda was having seizures i.e. "staring off" and...episodes of apnea.
- Her husband copped a plea to protect her..."he was threatened" that the prosecuting attorney would go after her for complicity in the child abuse/battering of Amanda.
What a lying POS Tonya is.
Excuse for for now, going offline. I'll be at my niece's 50th birthday party, enjoying my sisters 15 grandchildren, whose parents never abused their babies.
Her husband copped a plea to protect her…”he was threatened” that the prosecuting attorney would go after her for complicity in the child abuse/battering of Amanda.
He didn't accept the plea until the jury was going to be led into the courtroom. That doesn't exactly add up. I will reiterate that the only possible net effect of Tonya's actions, if endorsed by Elwood, would be to lengthen his sentence. Maybe she's not concerned. Moreover, Elwood advanced no such allegation of coercion to the appeals court.
others, like Catherine Frompovich and F. Edward Yazbak, have also promoted this concept.
As Orac has previously noted, Frompovich works closely with the SaneVax scammers, and is co-author of their guide to ambulance-chasing attorneys on how to use past vaccinations to profit from a child's death.
Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find. That being said, however, I’d encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get there.
Be very careful what you wish for, Tonya. You might just get it.
I know how vaccine injuries cause fractured skulls! The brain swelling, that encyfal-thingy, that would cause the brain to swell to the point where the skull fractures to release the exploding brain!!!!!!
Ye gods, I can't believe I just wrote that. I think I might go back to looking at Anglo-Saxon cemetery reports to calm down.
"Be very careful what you wish for, Tonya. You might just get it."
Just a heads-up for those wanting to read there, to save some time - I suggest going straight to the sidebar links. There seems to be nothing about the symptoms, medical examinations, etc., in the main pages.
Herr Dokter Bimmler: I am happy to believe that miscarriages of justice occur with single-issue zealots seeing bone weakness in a case of infantile rickets, diagnosing it as child abuse, and railroading someone into prison. There seem to be people in the police and justice systems who *prefer* prosecuting such cases, on the theory that the absence of any actual crime makes it harder for the designated defendants to show their innocence.
I hope to god that was sarcasm. I am not a lawyer (nor involved with any legal practice), but child abuse is hard enough to prosecute that no prosecuter would touch it without an ironclad case.
There's a guy here in my state who very probably sexually abused his kids and this only came to light when someone found very dodgy videos on his cell. Unfortunately, he wiped everything else (computers, etc) and is claiming these are "innocent videos." He's probably going to be acquitted. (I'm not against the odd baby butt or naked toddler photo, but all three of the kids were school age.) And come next year, in the states, no sexual crimes will be prosecuted, no matter how much evidence there is.
I think any doctor worth their salt could recognize the difference between rickets and abuse, and the doctor's word is what makes and breaks cases like this.
but child abuse is hard enough to prosecute that no prosecuter would touch it without an ironclad case.
Perhaps things have changed since the days of recovered-memory and satanic-ritual-abuse prosecutions.
Sadly, many of the RI regulars from Canada (and there seem to be a lot!) will be familiar with Charles Smith, who was a pediatric pathologist who unjustly got lots of people sent to prison for "child abuse", when the only evidence was his say-so.
Perhaps things have changed since the days of recovered-memory and satanic-ritual-abuse prosecutions.
At least Martha Coakley has moved on from prosecutor to... Massachusetts attorney general. (Includes both Satanic ritual abuse and SBS.)
Not familiar but I can look him up.
I read these blogs and find them entertaining, but tonight, I I am ashamed by some of the comments here. I did read some of this woman's story, and I have to admit that the evidence against her husband sounds incredibly week. While it may be doubtful that vaccinations led to the baby's collapse, but it's equally incredulous to believe that he had been abusing the baby for weeks and even the pediatrician didn't notice, and that a fall could not have caused a skull fracture. Do some doctors really say that?
What I see is a woman who believes her husband is innocent, and is trying everything she can to save him. Perhaps she has made some wrong turns along the way, but let us not stone her to death here, please.
I was amused to see John Lloyd dare to try to make his spiel at a blog run by a practicing doctor, and which is has many, many doctors and scientists that hang out in its comments threads. I don't think he'll be back.
But then I saw Tonya Sadowsky still trying to say, over and over again (is she the same person as "Jennfier", BTW?), that vaccines and not her husband killed her child, and I had to fight the urge to scream.
Why stay with the man who murdered your daughter, Tonya? Why?
Are you afraid of him? Do you really think he loves you? Is your financial state so precarious that it makes you willing to defend the murderer of your own baby girl?
( on a much lighter note) re Asgard / Vikings rampant
Oh I don't think so.
A few years ago I stayed at a well-appointed hotel: about 75% of the guests that weekend were part of a family reunion - they were Norwegian.
And they were lovely, polite, strong, tall, friendly people. They really liked yours truely, forever smiling at me, offering me coffee and cake ... liquor-. they were impossibly nice and killed me with kindness. I couldn't understand why they were behaving like that and why they liked me so much.
I had an odd thought: I'll bet they liked my ancestors too.
"Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find. That being said, however, I’d encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get th
For cripes sake here's the Physician's Prescribing Information on Engerix vaccine....
Punky/Stinky - how awful. Our nicknames for our kids were sweet beyond belief by comparison. This was no ordinary parenting situation!
All for now.
3:47 pm Anj/Calli Arcale: Thank you for the additional points. What I was trying to suggest was that a baby who was NOT crying (unless the baby was asleep) wouldn’t be turned over to the parents, since that is usually an indication of lung troubles or other serious issues.
Er... by each of my parents' separate accounts, the child may be turned over if the parents argue sufficiently persistently, insist on checking breathing without immediate intervention, and medical staff present are convinced that the child is breathing.
The "other serious issues" bit has me worried about my little sister, now.
So Christina England has not one, but three explanations for Amanda's death:
Fact 1: Amanda had reacted adversely to each and every one of her vaccinations:
Fact 2: Elwood suffered from Moyamoya disease:*
Fact 3: Tonya was given Oxytocin during labor:
Freud's parable springs to mind, from The Interpretation of Dreams, of the man who offered three separate defenses when accused by his neighbour of damaging the neighbour's kettle (I returned the kettle undamaged; and anyway, it already had a hole in it when I borrowed it; and anyway, I never borrowed your kettle in the first place!). The effect is to undermine trust in *all* the defenses.
* It emerges in the course of this particular explanation -- let us call it the "Dropsy theory" -- that England is under the impression that a TIA is the same as a stroke.
My ghast is well and truly flabbered.
Politicalguineapig said, "I think any doctor worth their salt could recognize the difference between rickets and abuse, and the doctor’s word is what makes and breaks cases like this." I agree whole-heartedly. But apparently many doctors are not worth their salt, and yes, the doctor's word is what makes and breaks cases like this.
I'm not going to stand here and claim that vaccinations led to the collapse of Ms. Sadowsky's baby, or that they caused the bleeding on the brain, or broken bones. Many of you may not be familiar with the case of Jayden Wray in the U,K. You may wish to familiarize yourself with that case before you make further embarrass yourselves. The U.K. has been working to right these wrongs for the past several months. There are many other cases that read very similar. (1)
Indeed, it is very easy to distinguish rickets from abuse. There are simple, cost-effective, bone density tests that can be performed when treating physicians suspect abuse. Sadly, these tests are rarely performed. The doctor diagnoses abuse, the child goes home (or not), and his job is done. By the time he testifies at trial, he has likely completely forgotten about the child. He expects that the police have done a thorough investigation. Likewise, the police assume that the doctor had done a thorough investigation. Often, that's not the case for either side, and innocent people are accused and later convicted. (2)
Frontline/NPR/Pro-Publica did a joint investigation of infant deaths, on the heals of a scathing review of the FBI's forensic practices by the American Academy of Sciences. What they found was equally alarming. (3)
From my investigations into this arena, I believe the the problems are much more widespread than any of us would feel comfortable admitting. It's one thing to suggest that perhaps scores of innocent parents are in prison for abusing their children, but it's quite another to suggest that hundreds, if not thousands of innocent parents are currently imprisoned based on a doctor's hasty diagnosis. But that may be what we are facing.(4) Even Dr. Norman Guthkelch, widely accepted as the "father of shaken baby syndrome," is now reconsidering his position, and has stated that he is horrified by how his work is being used to convict innocent parents who have had sick children. (5)(6)
As many of us are doctors and scientists, we should understand more than anyone the problems that are created when we merely BELIEVE something to be true. Undertake a rigorous investigation into this issue. Carefully read the medical papers in support of SBS theory. Don't even bother with the ones that attempt to debunk it. See what conclusions you come to. You may be surprised at what you find. (7)
Worst of all, the Editor-in-Chief wears a bowtie.
But bowties are cool!
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
Media Watch is one of the only news/current affairs shows I still watch. They do good stuff!
@ Jeremy Praay:
Why didn't you read the article and the shifting defenses that Tonya Sadowsky keeps offering up on her website?
Why didn't you look at the unsuccessful appeal that "Narad" linked to?
Tonya posted one time here...
"Actually, a known reaction to the Hepatitis B vaccine is jaundice, too. I would be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find. That being said, however, I’d encourage some of the readers who visit my site to actually READ something when they get there. Otherwise you’re no better than what you’re accusing me and anyone who supports me to be. Have a nice day."
I posted back at Tonya and provided the Engerix Hepatitis B Vaccine Physician's Prescribing Information and you obviously did not open the link. Show us where jaundice has EVER been reported, no less "a known reaction" to the hepatitis B vaccine.
Mr. Praay, show us why Tonya cautions us "to be leery to suggest 50% of all newborns experience jaundice regardless of whatever study you managed to find."
I also linked to the talk radio blog, where Tonya offers up another *theory* for her baby's injuries. In *hindsight* she is stating that Amanda must have had a preexisting seizure disorder ("staring off and apnea spells") Why didn't you listen to her latest *theory*?
"As many of us are doctors and scientists, we should understand more than anyone the problems that are created when we merely BELIEVE something to be true. Undertake a rigorous investigation into this issue. Carefully read the medical papers in support of SBS theory. Don’t even bother with the ones that attempt to debunk it. See what conclusions you come to. You may be surprised at what you find."
Hmmm, what kind of doctor or scientist are you, Mr. Praay?
Carefully read the medical papers in support of SBS theory. Don’t even bother with the ones that attempt to debunk it.
Then list them. At least more than the one fourteen year old review from a general practitioner.
HDB: Attorney General is a political post. Actual competence doesn't usually matter. In this state, we've been fairly lucky, although the reaction to the local meth problem went way overboard.
Temporarily Delurked: Sorry, didn't mean to alarm you. My only expertise regarding infants is what I've gleaned from my mother's war stories and some skims of textbooks. When I said 'serious issues' I meant things like heart murmurs, lung problems, and general prematurity. For the record, my sibs were born blue and were turned over to my parents after their lungs were cleared. However, most of my mother's patients were placed in incubators shortly after birth and are not usually sent home until a few weeks later. Does anybody know what the protocol is regarding infants with jaundice?
lilady, I'm not going to launch a defense for Ms. Sadowsky, nor am I going to talk about the problems with vaccines. I did read her post, but I have nothing to say on that matter. I listened to the live broadcast of her radio interview and submitted a question during the interview. I have also read extensively on her blog. Certainly, you are welcome to your opinion concerning the content, but I caution everyone not to draw firm conclusions based on the single article referenced by this blog. I am not here to support or defend her.
However, I have read many posts here with have made the implication that these "defenses" are simply invented to defend child murderers. In particular, I was responding to the assertion that congenital rickets is easily differentiated from child abuse. Indeed, it can be easy, but sadly, most physicians do not feel it is necessary to take that extra step. In my opinion, that is counter intuitive, since every time a child suffers broken bones, the perpetrator is going to claim that the child has a metabolic bone disorde. Right? So let's do those tests, and put that defense to rest before it ever has a chance. I would think that everyone would support such a mandate.
Apnea and staring spells can be an indication of a petit mal seizure. Certainly, if a baby has encephalopathy, seizures are common.
If you want to talk about "shifting defenses," again, do some reading on SBS. The original hypothesis suggested 3 symptoms: subdural hematoma, retinal hemorrhaging, and cerebral edema. The SDH was suggested to be from torn bridging veins. The cerebral edema from sheared axons. The retinal hemorrhaging was also suggested as a result of shearing forces. Today, we know that the bleeding is not due to torn bridging veins (Squier/Mack). The cerebral edema is due to anoxia (Geddes). Retinal hemorrhages are non-specific (Matshes) and may even be more common in deaths from natural causes (Lantz, unpublished review of 700 deaths). SBS proponents have simply included this information in-stride, even though the entire foundations of this theory have been laid to waste. I'm amazed that any "scientific theory" could have so much doubt cast on every single tenet, and still be considered a valid hypothesis, let alone a widely accepted theory. Furthermore, we are using it to convict people on a daily basis. That should be alarming.
Finally, Chris, I'm not going to list all of the papers regarding shaken baby syndrome. You're more than welcome to go into PubMed and begin the search yourself. I gave you a place to start. The literature through 1998 was what formed our current basis for SBS. Most of the literature since then has been compilations of older studies, case studies, but many have been undermining these older studies, and the picture starts to become cloudy. Therefore, I suggest simply reading up to 1998. The strongest argument I have seen is the anecdotal evidence, and to date, shaking has never been witnessed on a previously well baby leading to these symptoms. Should the anecdotal evidence be discarded? No. But it should be viewed in the appropriate light.
I’m not going to launch a defense for Ms. Sadowsky, nor am I going to talk about the problems with vaccines.... However, I have read many posts here with have made the implication that these “defenses” are simply invented to defend child murderers.
Unfortunately, in the case of vaccine causation and its post hoc add-on, "instant scurvy," there is little other conclusion, and this is in fact the topic.
Oh, and Jeremy, you wouldn't by any chance be related to Herbert Nathan Praay, would you?
If you want to talk about “shifting defenses,” again, do some reading on SBS.
You should know that medicine marches on, and with the advances in imaging technology just in the past five years: fourteen years old is ancient history.
But you can answer one thing: what actual medical literature actually documents vaccines causing those injuries. Make sure it is good evidence, recent and by someone who is competent. Remember I have seen an infant and toddler with actual seizures, one from a now vaccine preventable disease (and yes, he was standing, but collapsed and went into full convulsions when he was fourteen months old).
The elevation of liver enzymes due to hepatitis.
In conclusion, it is prudent to keep in mind that Hepatitis B vaccine can be responsible for hepatotoxicity.
You’re more than welcome to go into PubMed and begin the search yourself.
By the way, that is a common tactic used around here to avoid providing the evidence. If you make a claim, you need to provide the evidence.
Though perhaps you are new around here. Lurk a bit, and see where I and others have listed several studies at a drop of a hat. Here are some you might want to look up:
Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.
Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2006 Sep;25(9):768-73.
Encephalopathy after whole-cell pertussis or measles vaccination: lack of evidence for a causal association in a retrospective case-control study.
Now use those as a basis to explain how any vaccine can cause the injuries described in the baby.
"As many of us are doctors and scientists,....."
You're a software developer Mr. Praay...not a doctor and not a scientist and you attended an "evidence-based medicine social with Tonya Sadowsky, held in British Columbia in 2011.
I just love it, when paralegals and software developers come posting here. Here's Tonya's *opinions* about seizures and vaccines:
I see Mr. Praay lists "Windows software" as his one and only "skill and experience" on LinkedIn.
Mr. Praay, while specific skills in things like epidemiology, virology, physiology, biomechanics and pediatrics aren't the be-all-and-end-all to enter into the discussion here, it behooves those of us who lack those credentials to work even harder to provide evidence to support our positions.
You're making extraordinary claims and those require extraordinary evidence. In other words, "[CITATION NEEDED]"
To be fair, I don't think Mr. Praay is arguing SBS is vaccine injury. He seems to be questioning the very existence of SBS.
To be fair, I don’t think Mr. Praay is arguing SBS is vaccine injury. He seems to be questioning the very existence of SBS.
If my hypothesis is correct, he's doing it for the same reason as Kent Holcomb.
This Kent Holcomb? Where it looks like he is convicted for kidnapping, sexual assault, etc and has been a guest of Arizona Corrections since 1992. It looks like he will be there for a while.
This Kent Holcomb?
Yes, he's mentioned above.
Wow, I'm impressed. When you guys want to stalk someone you certainly go all the way!
My father is a convicted pedophile. I have not spoken to him in nearly 20 years, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. He has also been diagnosed with schizophrenia. I'll just share that here, so that the next group of stalkers will have an easier time. Perhaps you may also wish to contact my mother to further attempt your intimidation.
I met Tonya Sadowsky in Vancouver earlier this year. I also met Christina England and her son at that same conference, along with several other doctors and legal professionals.
Yes, I am currently employed as a software developer and I have a bachelor of science from Central Michigan University. My point was that many of those of us who read these blogs are doctors and scientists. I guess I left out stalkers. I chose to use my real name because I have nothing to hide. What are your real names again? What is your name Narad?
Dedicated Lurker, I think you hit the nail on the head. Thank you. If I may further clarify, I do think it is quite possible to shake a baby to death, and it may even result in the specific triad of injuries. However, I don't believe the science is there yet. At best we have an association with shaking. We have no clear indication of the actual causes. Further, neck damage is nearly always absent in the most contested cases. Surely, if someone shakes a baby as hard as the courtroom demonstrations suggest, the baby would have some spinal cord damage, and yet it is lacking.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have any strong opinions on vaccines. I believe they are known to cause brain swelling, so perhaps it's possible they cause SBS symptoms, but I haven't seen any evidence other than anecdotal.
And... There are literally hundreds of articles regarding shaken baby syndrome. I will withdraw my earlier statement suggesting that you read them, because they're apparently too difficult for you to find. I have not read them all, but I have read many of them, starting with Gutkelch and Caffey et al in the 1970's.
Overall, I am amazed at the level of intimidation that some of you have demonstrated, first at Ms. Sadowsky, then toward me. I sincerely hope that you are not employed as doctors nor scientists. For those of you who do have MD's, I guess you can simply ignore the words of a lowly software developer. I'm certainly used to it.
@ Jeremy Praay
And… There are literally hundreds of articles regarding shaken baby syndrome. I will withdraw my earlier statement suggesting that you read them, because they’re apparently too difficult for you to find. I have not read them all, but I have read many of them, starting with Gutkelch and Caffey et al in the 1970′s.
You made the claim, you provide the evidence. Why should we do your job for you?
What is your name Narad?
My surname is "The Man of Iron," Jeremy. Now, let us first dispense with the notion that you are being "stalked." Since you just popped in, it is perfectly legitimate to wonder what your dog in this fight is. You state the following:
I met Tonya Sadowsky in Vancouver earlier this year. I also met Christina England and her son at that same conference, along with several other doctors and legal professionals.
Now, who found whom in this? Just a random gathering and you had never heard of each other? Because I'm still fascinated about Holcomb providing the back-cover copy for the England & Buttram work, with attribution to "The Writings of Kent Holcomb."
Mr. Praay, who is not a doctor and certainly not a scientist, comes to this site parroting Tonya Sadowsky's ever-evolving *explanations* for the death of baby Amanda.
"She was jaundiced the day after she received her hepatitis B vaccine"
After how many years (?), since her husband was incarcerated, Tonya now *claims* the baby must have been having seizures ("staring off and apnea spells")...which prompted the software developer to opine, "Apnea and staring spells can be an indication of a petit mal seizures. Certainly, if a baby has encephalopathy, seizures are common."
(Direct from the Harold Buttram playbook)
I believe they are known to cause brain swelling, so perhaps it’s possible they cause SBS symptoms, but I haven’t seen any evidence other than anecdotal.
As you should have learned, around here beliefs are not a substitute for evidence. At least you have noted your bias, and admit there is no evidence. That is a start
And you are not the first, nor the last who insisted we find the evidence that is claimed to exist. You are not special.
To use a phrase that is common on this blog: Put up or shut up.
I have read many posts here with have made the implication that these “defenses” are simply invented to defend child murderers.
That is simply because Buttram and Yuzbak and others did indeed invent a new clinical entity in which vaccine side-effects mimic the symptoms of infant death by violence, and they did so specifically to defend child murderers.
It is not as if they noticed accumulating evidence about vaccines that caused them to propose a new syndrome... only later realising that this syndrome could be creating embarrassing contretemps and accusations of murder against innocent parents, such as happens all the time in French farce. Crucially, *the accusations came first* -- motivating Buttram et al to cobble together their elaborate exculpatory construction of counter-factuals. As a defense for child murderers.
This in turn leads to the suspicion that anyone invoking the "vaccine side-effect" theory to explain an infant's traumatic injuries is shielding a murderer. It is not conclusive, but it is not a good look.
It is analogous to a situation in which someone is found near a crime scene with red stains on their clothing. There might well be innocent explanations for the stains. It cannot help but invite suspicion, however, If the person claims to have been set upon by reverse vampires.
Praay: Dude, please take into account that the rest of us don't have your high tolerance for complete and total scumbags. Also, please note that Narad was using publically available info. That's no different from an employer running a background check; there's no call to call him (?) a stalker. He didn't call your family or anything.
Chris and ArtK, I'm sorry. I asked you to read all of the evidence IN SUPPORT OF SBS, and to specifically IGNORE the evidence that discredits it, and to form your own opinion based merely on the evidence in support of SBS. And yet, because I could not provide evidence to support the theory of SBS, you have decided not to accept the theory either. Apparently, neither of us support SBS theory. Great! Then that's one point that we no longer need to discuss. We can consider it moot, and move on. To be serious again, I believe you misunderstood my point in that post, but even so, I left 7 links in my original post. I highly doubt that you have already read through them, but I can certainly present more. I just feel that this entire discourse has been derailed.
Narad: Look, I am more than happy to engage in an honest debate, but when you continue to attack me personally, I have no interest, especially when you will not put yourself on equal footing. Furthermore, I do not need to explain all matters of my personal life to you. I have idea who Kent Holcomb is, except for the link provided. I'm sorry to disappoint your conspiracy theory, whatever it was. My personal involvement is in regards to the people who have been wrongfully convicted. I have no friends or family who have had this happen to them (okay, I obviously know some people now), nor have I ever been involved with CPS, although I'm sure you could arrange that for me, right? I guess you'll have to find someone else to bully. I do not want to encourage that type of behavior. I'm pretty sure I'm done responding to you. You were definitely trying to intimidate me, and I don't believe that any reasonable person here would disagree with that analysis. And it's far from "perfectly legitimate," especially when I stated at the outset that I was not here to personally support anyone. You are certainly welcome to hate whomever you chose.
Lilady, I don't mean to be rude, but you seem to keep attributing certain positions to me that I don't believe that I have taken. I don't think I've used the word jaundice since I began posting here, and I've repeatedly said that I'm not going to discuss vaccinations or Ms. Sadowsky. But apnea can be an indication of a petit mal seizure, although because a software developer and Dr. Buttram say that it's true, then it must be false? Do I need to find a link for that as well, or am I misunderstanding your point?
I am happy to debate the issue of SBS with any of you (except Narad), but I'm not going to continue replying to ad hominim attacks and straw-man arguments. And I'm not sure how many times I have to say that I'm not "anti-vaccine" before those questions end.
If I "have a dog" in this matter, it is to discover the truth and to help those who have been falsely accused and/or wrongfully convicted. After doing some research online, I discovered that I was not alone with my misgivings, and in recent years, many doctors have begun to state their own concerns regarding convictions based on SBS theory. Pediatricians believe it. Many pathologists are not convinced. I'm not aware of any biomechanics experts who are convinced, but I'm sure there are some out there.
You're welcome to read what these doctors are saying to each other here, in what I believe is the only public exchange of its kind: http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2010/09/shaken-baby
That is simply because Buttram and Yuzbak and others did indeed invent a new clinical entity in which vaccine side-effects mimic the symptoms of infant death by violence, and they did so specifically to defend child murderers.
By the way, their poster boy, Yurko, is incarserated again.
I left 7 links in my original post.
And only one of those links was a real citation. An old citation. You need to learn that newspaper articles (especially from the Daily Fail), random websites, opinion pieces and radio shows are not scientific evidence.
You made a claim, and you failed to provide the relevant citations.
After doing some research online, I discovered that I was not alone with my misgivings,...
Google University is not well respected around here.
...and in recent years, many doctors have begun to state their own concerns regarding convictions based on SBS theory. Pediatricians believe it. Many pathologists are not convinced. I’m not aware of any biomechanics experts who are convinced, but I’m sure there are some out there.
Citation needed. Again you are making a claim and failing to provide any actual verifiable documentation. And that means the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that support your statements.
While you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. And if you are talking about letting those who abuse children getting away with by blaming vaccines, you had better have some real facts.
Narad: Look, I am more than happy to engage in an honest debate,
What makes you think that this is the place for an "honest debate" about the existence of SBS? As I've mentioned, this is an article about hooking vaccines to the wagon. Moreover, if you had read the comments, you would know that I already brought up Martha Coakley as an example of an ambitious prosecutor who has used SBS as a high-profile plaform with which to promote her career.
but when you continue to attack me personally,
I haven't attacked you personally.
I have no interest, especially when you will not put yourself on equal footing.
If you think attacking the use of a pseudonym is going to get you any traction, you're sorely mistaken.
Furthermore, I do not need to explain all matters of my personal life to you. I have idea who Kent Holcomb is, except for the link provided. I’m sorry to disappoint your conspiracy theory, whatever it was.
There is no conspiracy theory. There are some odd patterns emerging around Christina England, though. Frankly, I'm not interested in you -- you just seem to be some guy with a Google alert for SBS who shows up in various places and starts doing his shtick without any particular regard to context.
My personal involvement is in regards to the people who have been wrongfully convicted. I have no friends or family who have had this happen to them
And why did you choose this outlet, then?
(okay, I obviously know some people now),
nor have I ever been involved with CPS,
That seems like an odd remark to advance out of the blue.
although I’m sure you could arrange that for me, right?
Allow me to clarify one more thing: When you pop up someplace for the first time in response to an England article, it's perfectly natural to immediately wonder if there is a connection to a guest at a state correctional facility. Holcomb has ensured that. It's not my fault who you choose to pal around with.
lilady, the the link to Dr. Buttram, in reference to apnea and staring spells being the result of a petit mal seizure, I could find no mention of either "apnea" nor "staring" in the included citation. I found where he briefly mentions "stress-induced breathing," however.
"Epilepsy is a neurological disorder involving recurrent seizures. A seizure, also called convulsion, is a sudden change in behavior caused by increased electrical activity in the brain. The increase in electrical activity may result in unconsciousness and violent body shakes or simply a staring spell that may go unnoticed..."
I'm still assuming that I do not need to correlate apnea with seizures, but I'm not familiar with your level of medical knowledge. Let me know if you need help.
Mr. Praay, how do you explain skull fractures found on the child in question?
I’m still assuming that I do not need to correlate apnea with seizures, but I’m not familiar with your level of medical knowledge. Let me know if you need help.
Oh, this is going to go well.
Chris, my apologies. Indeed, I'm not very active here. So I looked at the other citations here, and I'm not seeing a lot of medical journal literature. Do you have something specific in-mind? Squier and Mack's discussion of intradural hemorrhages in infancy? Geddes I, II, and II? Matshe's published study on the non-specificity of retinal hemorrhages? Lantz's unpublished study of the same? (oh, sorry, that's not published, so it doesn't count.) Most of those (and more) are already cited in Tuerkheimer's law review article. My position is largely hers. I'm not going to posit a thesis here, especially since this issue is a side-track from the original topic regarding infant vaccinations. I saw some comments being made that were meritless, let alone those that were personal and vicious. I have provided several lengthy citations, which list many, many more citations. But I haven't supported my position? Indeed, I've spent quite a bit of time fending the immediate personal attacks on my credibility, instead of discussing one single citation that I provided. Okay, to be fair, you briefly mentioned Donahoe's review of the literature up to 1998.
I left you with a link that does indeed discuss the issue that Pediatricians overwhelmingly support SBS theory. As for the rest, I was not trying to support a scientific position. That's fine if you want to discard that statement. It neither supports nor weakens anything that I have said here.
And you misspelled "incarcerated."
Squier and Mack’s discussion of intradural hemorrhages in infancy? Geddes I, II, and II? Matshe’s published study on the non-specificity of retinal hemorrhages? Lantz’s unpublished study of the same? (oh, sorry, that’s not published, so it doesn’t count.) Most of those (and more) are already cited in Tuerkheimer’s law review article.
I said citations, not name dropping. What part of "title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed paper" did you fail to understand. Oh, and they need to be published. I gave you examples. And I specifically included that last link in the list of not real citations because it is a radio show by a pair of journalists.
And I did mention Donohoe's review multiple times. Did you not notice I mentioned that you posted exactly one citation that was fourteen years old?
Do you even read the responses you were given?
Now answer Science Mom's question. I would add you really need to give us a real citation that a vaccine reaction includes skull fractures. And again, I do not mean random websites, unpublished works, opinion pieces, news reports or radio shows.
Science Mom, thank you for asking. It is undisputed in this case that the father dropped the infant. It is my position that such a fall could have caused a skull fracture in an infant, especially one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder. Again, this is irrespective of vaccinations, and I'm just a software developer. But you asked my opinion, and that is my opinion.
AAAAGH.... the last bit is supposed not be in blockquote:
I said citations, not name dropping. What part of “title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed paper” did you fail to understand. Oh, and they need to be published. I gave you examples. And I specifically included that last link in the list of not real citations because it is a radio show by a pair of journalists.
And I did mention Donohoe’s review multiple times. Did you not notice I mentioned that you posted exactly one citation that was fourteen years old?
Do you even read the responses you were given?
Now answer Science Mom’s question. I would add you really need to give us a real citation that a vaccine reaction includes skull fractures. And again, I do not mean random websites, unpublished works, opinion pieces, news reports or radio shows.
Though maybe if I repeat it, he might actually read it with comprehension. Why in the world would he think a radio show is a "citation"?
one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder.
What bone disorder? And was it mentioned in the legal proceedings?
Chris, I'm asking if that's what you want? Is that what you want me to cite? I'm not going to spend an hour looking this up, if you're just going to say, "That's not what I was talking about."
As for your final question, I'm not even sure what fallacy you are engaging in, but I think the straw-man argument comes closest, although it is also non-sequitor, so I'm not sure. I guess you're asking me to cite something that shows that vaccinations prevent skull fractures. You win. I can't produce that.
Is it because I spelled a word wrong that you cannot understand what I write?
Mr. Praay, I am asking that when you make what you think is a factual claim that you back it up. If is something that is part of the "theory of SBS" it would be in the medical literature, then you should not need to spend an hour looking it up: because you should already have it at hand!.
If you make a claim, you need to show your evidence, and it needs to be real medical literature citations.
You just told Science Mom that the child had a metabolic bone disorder. You made a claim, so now you must provide the evidence that claim is true. Since it is about an individual child it would not be in the medical literature, but in the legal proceedings.
It is not a straw man argument to ask you that when you make a claim you need to provide the actual evidence.
Now answer Science Mom's question.
Mr. Praay, I think you are overlooking something rather obvious. Namely, every case which is attributed to SBS represents an actual dead infant, who certainly died of something.
You suggest that we should examine "the evidence in support of SBS" and make our decisions based on that, and you suggest that the supposed paucity of that evidence will lead us to believe that it is unlikely for there to be any such thing. But that's like asking "how probable is it, really, for a big chunk of rock to come hurtling down from the sky?" and not taking into consideration as evidence in the calculation THE FACT THAT YOU'VE GOT A FREAKING HUGE ROCK IN THE GROUND THAT WASN'T THERE BEFORE.
Have there been cases where an infant has had a rare pre-existing condition and the parents have been unjustly blamed for the infant's death? Yes, there have. But the key word is "rare." To say you don't believe that SBS is real is to inherently say that you believe every single infant death attributed to SBS has some better, more likely explanation. And supporting Tonya Sadowsky and her preposterous idea that vaccines somehow fractured her infant's skull, well, I'll be frank. That says to most people here that you're not actually concerned with finding the real reason these infants died; you just want to find a set of beliefs that doesn't make you confront anything unpleasant or uncomfortable.
Look, I'm from the state where the infamous "Little Rascals Daycare" fiasco occurred. I've had people very close to me who came under suspicion for some awful deeds for the reason that they were in fact guilty of them; I've had people very close to me who came under suspicion for awful deeds for no better reason than that they were related to the above people. I know all too well that the system doesn't always get it right. But you can't just say "the authorities don't know everything, so I get to believe anything I choose." You have to go with what the evidence shows, and - again - the evidence that must weigh most heavily is the fact that the infants are dead, not any alleged theoretical defects in scientific papers.
"What bone disorder? And was it mentioned in the legal proceedings?"
Chris, look... I don't have every aspect of this case memorized and I'm not here to discuss it. She asked my opinion. If I made a mis-statement regarding a metabolic bone disorder, then strike it. Regardless, a fall from several feet can cause a skull fracture in an infant. Do I need to cite that? Or is that common sense?
Further, I assume that neither of us are legal experts. My understanding, however, is that new evidence could not be presented during the first appeal. I know that is true of trial convictions, but I do not know for certain in cases where there is a plea. Generally, those types of appeals have to come later, when appeals courts have the option of granting a new trial based on new evidence not available at the time of the conviction. I'm sorry, that's the best answer I can provide, as I am not intimately familiar with this case.
Sorry, I made that comment before Mr. Praay responded to "I would add you really need to give us a real citation that a vaccine reaction includes skull fractures. And again, I do not mean random websites, unpublished works, opinion pieces, news reports or radio shows." with "I guess you’re asking me to cite something that shows that vaccinations prevent skull fractures." I wouldn't have tried to get through to Mr. Praay had I realized what scum he is. Apologies for my role in wasting your time, y'all.
As for your final question, I’m not even sure what fallacy you are engaging in, but I think the straw-man argument comes closest, although it is also non-sequitor, so I’m not sure.
Might want to watch it with those spelling quips, Jeremy.
Antaeus Feldspar, your argument is more fallacious than anything that I have put forward on here. Certainly, infants die. They die of natural, accidental, and inflicted causes each and every day. Are we always able to differentiate these 3 causes? No. Indeed, I can be perfectly healthy in appearance, and drop dead tomorrow from any number known and unknown causes. The problem erupts when a doctor may see something out of the ordinary, and then makes an assumption without taking other factors into consideration, including "I don't know." Babies die of "I don't know" all the time, but we call it SIDS, or cot-death in the U.K.
Are some SBS cases abuse? I think the vast majority of them are. Do they always get the right perpetrator? Perhaps. But if you are presented with a baby with no external or internal injuries, other than the brain bleed, retinal hemorrhages, and brain swelling, do we know to an absolute certainty that the child was shaken? That is the question. And we do not necessarily know how "rare" these cases are, if we keep sending people to prison, even though they vehemently profess their innocence.
If I may present an analogy, imagine if the witch trials from 1692 never ended. By now we would have 400+ years of confessions and established dogma concerning witchcraft. But none of it would be real, would it? Well, perhaps we could argue that many of those tried for witchcraft were still guilty of SOMETHING, and therefore the continued prosecutions are warranted. But what about those that are not guilty of anything? What about those who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Should we just accept those losses? Personally, I don't think so. You are welcome to your opinion.
If I may present an analogy, imagine if the witch trials from 1692 never ended.
That's not an "analogy," Jeremy.
Antaeus Feldspar, you are entitled to your opinion of me. However, I did misspeak, and meant to say the following:
“I guess you’re asking me to cite something that shows that vaccinations do not prevent skull fractures."
If you drop a baby, whether vaccinated or not, a skull fracture is a possibility. [missing citation]
It is undisputed in this case that the father dropped the infant.
Is it? I am happy to believe that Elwood Sadowsky claims to have dropped the infant, but he is not a disinterested source.
It is my position that such a fall could have caused a skull fracture in an infant, especially one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder.
Is there reason to believe that the infant was suffering from a metabolic bone disorder?
As a separate issue, I noticed this sentence in England's article:
This is called the encephalitic cry, meaning that it is caused by an inflamed, swollen brain.
I had never come across the term "encephalitic cry" before (despite having some expertise in the field of infant crying and its diagnostic value). In a brief search of the Internet, I couldn't find it in use among pediatricians. Anyone who mentions "encephalitic cry" turns out to be a vaccination crank striving for an air of authority. They seem to have obtained it from that fount of reliability, 19th-century homeopathy textbooks.
The anti-vax websites are fond of telling naive parents that any prolonged crying from an infant is evidence of permanent vaccine-induced brain damage. They're that kind of people.
I don’t have every aspect of this case memorized and I’m not here to discuss it
You opened that door, Sherlock.
“I guess you’re asking me to cite something that shows that vaccinations do not prevent skull fractures.”
Reading is not your strong suit. I said " I would add you really need to give us a real citation that a vaccine reaction includes skull fractures. "
Chris, I'm truly sorry. I do not understand your question, and I have done my best to answer it on several occasions.
Jeremy Praay, why did you write “It is my position that such a fall could have caused a skull fracture in an infant, especially one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder”?
Did the child in question suffer from such a disorder?
If you believe this is true, please explain to us why you believe it.
If you do not know for a fact that the child did indeed suffer from a metabolic bone disorder, please explain: why did you bring it up?
herr doktor bimler,
For the moment, let's entertain the notion that Elwood shook the baby to death, as alleged. Then let me ask you how the skull fracture got there. Can you shake a skull fracture?
Indeed, that argument seems just as ridiculous as vaccine-induced skull fractures. If Mr. Sadowsky did not drop the baby, then perhaps we can simply say that both sides should reasonably agree that the baby impacted a solid surface. Do we agree on that aspect?
Can you shake a skull fracture?
The original indictment that he pled down was a bit broader, by all lights.
Chemmemo, I am familiar with many of these cases. I may have confused it with another, but I believe that Dr. Buttram mentioned it in his report. But since Dr. Buttram's report is apparently not considered credible here, you are certainly free to consider that the skull fracture was simply the result of a drop or solid-surface impact of some kind without any additional brittle bone disorder.
Can you shake a skull fracture?
If we accept the report as filtered through the lens of Christina England,
Amanda died from multiple skull fractures and the triad of injuries associated with Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS)
-- i.e. blunt-force trauma to the head AND shaking.
Perhaps she was dropped repeatedly.
Jeremy: No, no, you haven't. You've done a whole lot of pretty dancing, but you haven't answered anything at all. If yu can move like that in real life, you might apply to Dancing with the Stars.
We aren't disputing that all sorts of things happen to babies. I know a woman who had a one year old who fell off her front steps and dislocated his elbow. My state is currently dealing with a number of cases involving infants who died of suffocation in day cares.
However in this case, we have an infant who died in a highly suspicious way, followed by two parents who are desperately trying to blame something, anything, for their child's death and are claiming innocence at the top of their lungs. And they aren't cooperating at all with the police or the legal forces. So, most of us are quite rightly thinking that there's something stinking under all that smoke.
By the way, most SIDS deaths are caused by asphyxiation, not skull fractures.
Ah, we find the suggestion of metabolic bone disease -- otherwise unspecifed and untested-for -- in Dr Buttram's report where it is a post-facto rationalisation of Amanda's broken ribs.
Jeremy, you are a piece of work.
At October 7, 10:47 pm, you back out of claiming the child had a metabolic bone disorder with:
I may have confused it with another
Yet, your initial reply to ScienceMom at October 7, 9:37 pm reads (my emphasis),
It is undisputed in this case that the father dropped the infant. It is my position that such a fall could have caused a skull fracture in an infant, especially one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder.
If you’re making “undisputed” claims, you’d better not be confusing the case with another!
By the way, you’ve been bitten by one of the internet gremlins: have you noticed that ever since you criticized Chris’s spelling, your own posts have been riddled with typos as well?
The autopsy report also notes that some of Amanda's cerebral bleeding was from head injuries inflicted at least 72 hours previously, i.e. not from a fall to the floor the previous day.
Babies die of “I don’t know” all the time, but we call it SIDS, or cot-death in the U.K.
SIDS isn't just "I don't know why the infant died" you know.
First, I am growing weary of having my position misstated on nearly every post that asks me a question, but I am trying to honestly answer every question put before me, to the best of my abilit. If that's not enough, then why ask me in the first place? Especially if you've already discredited me in your mind. Simple curiosity to see how I will respond to repeated mischaracterizations?
"However in this case, we have an infant who died in a highly suspicious way, followed by two parents who are desperately trying to blame something, anything, for their child’s death and are claiming innocence at the top of their lungs. And they aren’t cooperating at all with the police or the legal forces. So, most of us are quite rightly thinking that there’s something stinking under all that smoke."
I would like to clear up two issues. Mr. Sadowsky is in prison, and has been there for about 5 years since the death of his daughter. He cooperated fully, in that he gave a (allegedly false) confession and entered into a plea agreement. I'm not going opening up the door to the reasons for false confessions or why he did what he did. I'm simply correcting the factual error at hand.
SIDS deaths are caused by "I don't know what caused death" although there are some specific signs used in making that determination. If SIDS were caused by suffocation, then the cause of death would be suffocation, unless you have a citation or some original research in this arena.
Further into the autopsy report we discover that as well as bilateral fractures to the parietal and occipital bones, Amanda had bruises to the face, a fractured neck, and hemorrhaging within the spinal cord.
Both in the spine and the brain, the pathologist distinguishes between organising infarctions (i.e. the body is trying to cope with the bleeding -- dismantling the neural architecture in the process) and more recent acute infarctions.
Baby dropping? Apparently Elwood could not stop at just one!
Dr. Buttram’s report is apparently not considered credible here
Do you accept Dr Buttram as a credible authority? Bearing in mind his claim early in his report that infant crying is "suggestive of an encephalalitic reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine, something rarely recognized for its true nature"?
Chemmomo, when I originally said "undisputed," I simply meant that both Mr. and Mrs. Sadowsky are not disputing that the baby had fallen. I made that statement in the face of growing questions, mostly from Chris, which seemed to indicate that I had said that vaccinations cause skull fractures. At least that was my interpretation of his comments, although now I literally have no idea what he wanted from me. I was supposed to produce citations showing that skull fractures are a result of vaccinations? Why on Earth would I attempt to do that? I was more than happy to provide other citations, but he refused the invitation.
Touche on the spelling issue. Not the first time that's backfired... ;-)
Well, I think I'm done here. Feel free to reference me in distaste in your future posts, but I have to go do my real job,and I doubt that I'll be back to discuss this issue, assuming that's what we ever did.
I will go along with the suggestion that "shaken baby syndrome" is a misnomer in this case, where the pathologist's report is more consistent with a baby being beaten to death over a period of days or weeks. As Narad noted earlier, its appearance here is the outcome of plea bargaining.
"lilady, the the link to Dr. Buttram, in reference to apnea and staring spells being the result of a petit mal seizure, I could find no mention of either “apnea” nor “staring” in the included citation. I found where he briefly mentions “stress-induced breathing,” however."
Mr. Praay: In the link I provided to Harold Buttram, did you *miss* this?
"Vasculopathies, Autoimmunity, and Cerebral Hemorrhages: A scattering of reports suggest that the hepatitis B vaccine may play a major role, as yet largely unrecognized, in hemorrhagic complications from vaccines. Among the children diagnosed with the SBS were quadruplets who suffered subdural hemorrhages or bloody spinal fluid following hepatitis B vaccines. The mother of these children has been sentenced to l72.5 years in prison.
In a collection of abstracts from Med-Line research, from 1990 to October 1997, on adverse reactions from the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine, Dr. Andrea Valeri of Italy catalogued a total of 45 different types of reactions in the world literature (personal communication, 2000) Among these were necrotizing vasculitis,(35) vaccine-induced autoimmunity,(36) and segmentary occlusion of the central retinal vein.(37) In addition, vasculitis following hepatitis B vaccine has been reported.(38) Thrombocytopenia is listed as a possible complication in the Physicians' Desk Reference, 2001. In a report of 18 deaths of neonates following the hepatitis B vaccine by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, 1991-1998, hemorrhagic phenomena were common, including two patients with cerebral hemorrhages, four with pulmonary bleeding, one with bloody diarrhea, and several with blood in upper airway passages.(39) A report in Postgraduate Medicine on acute hemorrhagic encephalitis cites vaccines as one of the possible causes.(40)"
You then go on to state...
“Epilepsy is a neurological disorder involving recurrent seizures. A seizure, also called convulsion, is a sudden change in behavior caused by increased electrical activity in the brain. The increase in electrical activity may result in unconsciousness and violent body shakes or simply a staring spell that may go unnoticed…”
""I’m still assuming that I do not need to correlate apnea with seizures, but I’m not familiar with your level of medical knowledge. Let me know if you need help."
Your link to that source Mr. Praay, is a joke. Why not try this source for pediatric petit mal (absence) seizures Try looking at the diagnostic workup for absence seizures...that includes natural sleep EEG tracings during 24-hour continuous EEG monitoring and MRI scans.
I have a BSc-Nursing degree and I am a licensed registered nurse.
My now deceased son was born with a rare genetic disorder. He was multiply and profoundly intellectually and physically disabled with a grand mal (tonic-clonic) seizure disorder. His first seizure occurred in the NICU when he was less than 24 hours old; he was anoxic and was resuscitated. He also had psychomotor seizures. There were numerous episodes of status epilepticus; he had right sided Todd's paralysis following one these episodes. During early childhood he was an impatient in the pediatric ICU dozens of times for seizure control...that's not counting the in-between-trips via ambulance to the hospital ER for IV push lorazapam and IV push phenytoin to stop his seizures.
I am the substitute legal guardian for a young man who was born with zero platelets that caused a major brain bleed that left him with a huge left hemisphere porencephalic cyst. He has Lennox Gasteux seizures, absence seizures and he too, has been in (absence) status epilepticus. He was also hospitalized in the pediatric ICU under 24 hour continuous EEG monitoring, where I cared for him, when he was in Lennox Gasteux status epilepticus.
"I’m still assuming that I do not need to correlate apnea with seizures, but I’m not familiar with your level of medical knowledge. Let me know if you need help."
Here let me FTFY-
I know you are clueless about apnea and seizures. I am familiar with your *level of medical knowledge* and you are beyond help.
Sorry for the delay. I have a real eighteen year old daughter, with whom we have finally watched "Project Runway" together. Some how in the next week we will watch "Grimm" and the new network version of "Sherlock Holmes."
It is a bit difficult to get mindless television time with this child as she is now a college freshman doing her best as always. She is a "freshman" entering with 75 out of 180 needed to graduate quarter credits from Advanced Placement testing and taking classes at the community college before graduating from high school (which she hated, like me, her mother).
I mention this because a bit over eighteen years ago her older brothers left the gate to the basement open, and she as a newly crawling infant fell down half a flight of stairs. I remember the screams, just as much as I remember the call to the doctors' office.
She was physically very precocious, getting motor skills much sooner than the cognitive skills to deal with the movement. She was just four months old when she crawled. The same age when baby Amanda died.
My daughter fell down half a flight of stairs when she was four months old. I was terrified that she may have been injured. The family doctor on call told me what to watch for, and we were very lucky. She was okay.
Obviously that was more than dropping a child from a small height. Or has I have learned as a mother of three children: babies tend to bounce (not like I ever did it deliberately... gah, child #2 insisted on being worn in the baby sling so his head hit a couple of stair handrails... oh, and he is majoring in math, he wants to be a high school math teacher... since he has been a swim teacher since he was fifteen it is something he was born to do!).
So tell me, Mr. Praay, why we should believe you? You seem to think "citations" could be anything that is on "teh internets" Hopefully you have learned what a real citation means on this blog (no radio program sites!).
Hello, Mr. Praay. Have you ever heard of Purple Crying? Or that babies cry for no apparent reason.
Part of communicating with my now eighteen year old daughter is through sewing. Something that she has learned from me, and we share by watching "Project Runway." We both get to laugh that one of her brothers is a straight doppelganger for Austin Scarlett. (He posted a picture of Mr Scarlett on his Facebook page and most people thought it was him!... yes, he is a tall blond math major who is a swim teacher).
We both thought it was hilarious that the designers needed to deal with dolls that cried like real babies in episode. Have fun with the almost an hour of that episode when they try to work as the dolls emit almost realistic cries.
Praay:I would like to clear up two issues. Mr. Sadowsky is in prison, and has been there for about 5 years since the death of his daughter. He cooperated fully, in that he gave a (allegedly false) confession and entered into a plea agreement. I’m not going opening up the door to the reasons for false confessions or why he did what he did. I’m simply correcting the factual error at hand.
Okay, I was not aware that he had copped a plea bargain. Which, btw, seems to indicate that Mr. Sandowsky realized he was unlikely to win the case. Plea bargains are usually only presented as options when there is overwhelming evidence against one's innocence, or when the charge is fairly minor. I don't know if you're aware of this but false confessions tend to be pretty rare nowadays, and due to DNA evidence, they can- and often are- thrown out
SIDS deaths are caused by “I don’t know what caused death” although there are some specific signs used in making that determination. If SIDS were caused by suffocation, then the cause of death would be suffocation, unless you have a citation or some original research in this arena.
SIDS is a CATEGORY of infant deaths, bub, not a cause of death. Suffocation/asphyxiation is the most common one, but there are others. We just group them as SIDS because humans like to categorize things. I don't know of any research currently being done; any commentors (not you, Praay) like to steer me to some?
Charles Smith, who was a pediatric pathologist who unjustly got lots of people sent to prison for “child abuse”, when the only evidence was his say-so
UK law was changed so that a guilty verdict cannot be returned if it's based solely on the testimony of an expert witness.
That's because of a delightful(ly arrogant) man, Professor Sir Roy Meadow. Despite not being a statistician, he decided that multiple cases of SIDS in one family could only be due to murder. Several women were imprisoned, solely due to his testimony.
His other pet cause was Munchausen's by Proxy. One of the jailed women was sentenced after he claimed she killed her babies for attention, due to having MBP. His reasoning? The babies were healthy prior to their deaths, and SIDS does not (according to him) strike healthy infants.
One of the mothers (a solicitor) died shortly after her sentence was overturned. Her grief over her children, compounded by false imprisonment (and abuse from staff and inmates alike, as the resident "baby killer") led her to drink herself to death.
@Chris - that episode of PR was hilarious.
As for the most recent episode, I think [losing contestant, don't want to spoil it for anyone!] was robbed.
Aaagh... the first link should be:
And oddly enough, my younger blondy boy looks like that picture. Except he is quite straight. His problem is that after he gives his heart away, after a while the young ladies who do not wish to deal with his inherent nerdness hand it back to him. Ah, the problems of being a math major!
Chris: Too young for me, but he sounds adorable.
@ politicalguineapig: About SIDS...
Notice the various hypotheses about the etiology of SIDS, and the "Back to Sleep/Safe to Sleep" campaigns which resulted in a dramatic decrease in SIDS cases:
As for the most recent episode, I think [losing contestant, don't want to spoil it for anyone!] was robbed.
That is always up for debate. As noted there was differing opinions on the contestants from the judges from the last round. And I did not agree with them.
Personally I thought that Christopher's outfit was appropriate for a the 1944 Spider Woman episode of Sherlock Holmes.
And, Politicalguineapig, yes he is adorable. But I only say that because I am his mother. I need to forget the time he hid his dinner veggies in a hole in the wall when he was five. And that when he was a high school junior he went downtown to watch the after Thanksgiving parade with his girlfriend.. and her other friends. While he was bewildered about obsession with shoes, he insisted he did not hold purses while the three young ladies tried on clothes. Except one of them did tell me he waited outside the dressing rooms with their belongings He is adorable.
(I'm smart enough now, to not link to three sources)
Politicalguineapig: Suffocation is a major problem for babies whose parents "bed-share", who parents do not provide a safe separate crib and safe bedding.
The incidence of cot deaths in NZ was successfully reduced by convincing parents that it was a bad idea to have the infant sleeping in the same bed as you if you had spent the night drinking.
Shame my comment disappeared into spam with only one link. Let's try again, this time with no link, then the link in a following comment.
Off-topic, but excuse the diversion. SANE Vax has put up a few abstracts of unpublished papers or conference presentations from the Shaw lab (Shaw was one of the 'expert witnesses' in the Jasmine Renata coroner's inquest that Orac wrote about a while back). Lucija Tomljenovic works in his lab. An abstract they post of a conference presentation she has made draws a link between brain tissue examination and vaccination: "Death after quadrivalent human papillomavirus (qHPV) vaccination: Causal or coincidental?" (google it if you're interested and the link doesn't come through in a later comment)
I'm curious as to how see 'connects dots' from the brain tissue observations to fingering the vaccine as the cause.
Second time now I include a link and my comment bombs :-(
We had a terrible case here (Grant, you'll remember), when infant twins Chris and Cru Kahui were murdered by somebody in their family. Check their Wikipedia entry to see the ins and outs of the case. It was utterly ghastly and at one point, predictably, some so-called expert claimed they died of 'natural causes' - but with some degree of implication that vaccines might have been involved.
Grant, let's see if I can link for you...
lilady, thanks. I wonder what the blog has against me!
Edit: "how see ‘connects dots’" should read "how she ‘connects dots’"
Perhaps you are having trouble because of your home port, Grant. (I am not a computer techie) :-)
lilady - nothing has changed at my end, but thanks for the thought.
The strongest argument I have seen is the anecdotal evidence, and to date, shaking has never been witnessed on a previously well baby leading to these symptoms. Should the anecdotal evidence be discarded? No. But it should be viewed in the appropriate light.
What now? Let's throw out new studies and instead treat anecdotes as data? How is that even remotely scientific?
I believe they are known to cause brain swelling, so perhaps it’s possible they cause SBS symptoms, but I haven’t seen any evidence other than anecdotal.
Ah I see... anecdotes are fine when it suits your purpose, and not when it suits your purpose again.
And yet, because I could not provide evidence to support the theory of SBS, you have decided not to accept the theory either. Apparently, neither of us support SBS theory.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point.
Also, how is this
I asked you to read all of the evidence IN SUPPORT OF SBS, and to specifically IGNORE the evidence that discredits it, and to form your own opinion based merely on the evidence in support of SBS
Scientific? To make up your mind based only on one 'side' of the published studies?
I am happy to debate the issue of SBS with any of you (except Narad), but I’m not going to continue replying to ad hominim attacks and straw-man arguments.
It seems you use many of those logical fallacies yourself.
Most of those (and more) are already cited in Tuerkheimer’s law review article
How is a law review article relevant to the MEDICAL science?
As for the rest, I was not trying to support a scientific position.
Then why are you arguing about it on a science-based blog?
I don’t have every aspect of this case memorized and I’m not here to discuss it.
Then why mention it in the first place?
If I may present an analogy, imagine if the witch trials from 1692 never ended.
Is referring to witchhunts some sort of logical fallacy? If not, it should be.
If Mr. Sadowsky did not drop the baby, then perhaps we can simply say that both sides should reasonably agree that the baby impacted a solid surface
Of all the things we argue about on this site, this has to be the most absurd.
Science Mom, thank you for asking. It is undisputed in this case that the father dropped the infant. It is my position that such a fall could have caused a skull fracture in an infant, especially one who is already suffering from a metabolic bone disorder. Again, this is irrespective of vaccinations, and I’m just a software developer. But you asked my opinion, and that is my opinion.
Thank you for answering Mr. Praay but I'm having some trouble with "undisputed" and "metabolic bone disorder". The "undisputed" part isn't really is it? And the "metabolic bone disorder" is a post-hoc introduction by a very unscrupulous doctor. Is there anything in the autopsy report that actually substantiates that?
Chris, look… I don’t have every aspect of this case memorized and I’m not here to discuss it. She asked my opinion. If I made a mis-statement regarding a metabolic bone disorder, then strike it.
Oddly, Dr. Buttram asserted that, you repeated it and then re-canted based upon faulty memory. Why?
But if you are presented with a baby with no external or internal injuries, other than the brain bleed, retinal hemorrhages, and brain swelling, do we know to an absolute certainty that the child was shaken?
But that isn't the case here. The cause of death was listed as "homicidal blunt force trauma" was it not?
Chemmomo, when I originally said “undisputed,” I simply meant that both Mr. and Mrs. Sadowsky are not disputing that the baby had fallen.
The baby was four months old at the time of her death. Stating the "baby had fallen" implies of her own volition. I don't know of any four month old infants, other than a tumble down the stairs, who could fall by themselves and sustain those kind of injuries. Care to elaborate on this Mr. Praay? Additionally, Amanda sustained numerous injuries prior to her death that are consistent with abuse so if you are not defending Tonya's ridiculous vaccine-injury nor any pre-existing condition that has not been found then what is your point?
lilady, I’m not going to launch a defense for Ms. Sadowsky, nor am I going to talk about the problems with vaccines. I did read her post, but I have nothing to say on that matter. I listened to the live broadcast of her radio interview and submitted a question during the interview. I have also read extensively on her blog. Certainly, you are welcome to your opinion concerning the content, but I caution everyone not to draw firm conclusions based on the single article referenced by this blog. I am not here to support or defend her.
That doesn't seem to be an accurate description as it's been shown that you have a personal relationship with Tonya Sadowsky and Christina England at the very least. And you're proffering quite a bit of obfuscation about SBS when that is not even the cause of death here. You've hitched your wagon to a strange bunch of horses here and I can't help but wonder why.
Your position is neither internally consistent nor consistent with the facts in evidence. No mention of SBS or like entity is in the autopsy report as far as I can see nor in the court documents I have viewed. You have withheld information regarding your relationship with Tonya Sadowsky and Christina England and claim that you have only read Dr. Buttram's report. What is your dog in this fight?
I made that statement in the face of growing questions, mostly from Chris, which seemed to indicate that I had said that vaccinations cause skull fractures. At least that was my interpretation of his comments, although now I literally have no idea what he wanted from me. I was supposed to produce citations showing that skull fractures are a result of vaccinations? Why on Earth would I attempt to do that?
I realize Mr. Praay has claimed that he's done here, but he'd hardly be the first person who failed to "stick the flounce," so I'm going to answer his question anyways.
If you go around saying "SBS theory does not hold up as the cause of all those infant deaths; it is not the most plausible explanation for all the physical evidence," that is inherently implying that there is another explanation for all the physical evidence that is more plausible.
If you tie your argumentation specifically to Tonya Sadowsky, that leads people to believe that you think Ms. Sadowsky's hypothesis of "vaccine injury" is more plausible. Of course, we know where Ms. Sadowsky got "her" hypothesis that cases attributed to SBS are in fact primarily caused by vaccines: Yazbak and Buttram.
In the specific case of Amanda Sadowsky, it may be acknowledged by all parties that the skull fracture was due to mechanical injury, though the circumstances of the injury are disputed. But the Yazbak/Buttram hypothesis in general attributes skull fractures to vaccine injury.
An explanation which only requires things we know can happen is inherently more probable than an explanation that requires things we've never documented happening even once. SBS requires things that we sadly do know to exist: adults who treat infants violently. The Yazbak/Buttram hypothesis depends upon vaccine injury causing skull fractures - if not in the specific case of Amanda Sadowsky, then in all the other cases where Mr. Praay wants us to believe that "vaccine injury" is a far more probable cause for an infant's injuries including skull fracture than abuse from an adult.
By choosing to back the Buttram/Yazbak hypothesis as more plausible than SBS, not just in this individual case but in general, Mr. Praay is inherently arguing that yes, vaccinations can cause skull fractures. He can't pretend that isn't part of the hypothesis he's advocating just because in this case it's not invoked.
lilady: Thank you for the links.
A point, mainly gleaned from the excerable report on baby Amanda's death by a UK antivax doctor, Michael Innis (seen on the Amanda Truth Project website of her mom, Tonya.
Re Jaundice severity:
Innis states her bilirubin level was increased at 13.95mg/dl.
As we know, neonatal jaundice is common, due to immaturity of the liver in metabolising the excess red blood cells every baby has to deal with following birth.
Normal levels of bilirubin are as follows:
"High" levels are regarded as those outside the 95% confidence limits, which are:
It would seem that Amanda's jaundice was minimal, at most.
Source: UpToDate (Medical resource, no linky I am afraid)
My son was 4 weeks preterm, and needed several days under the UV lights to deal with his severe physiological neonatal jaundice. On the way home from hospital, I bumped his head, quite hard, on the car door frame as I was tryingh to swing him round to put in the baby seat.
His head did not explode.
He is now majoring in psychology.
Jeremy Praay "I met Tonya Sadowsky in Vancouver earlier this year. I also met Christina England and her son at that same conference, along with several other doctors and legal professionals."
Did you enjoy your copy of "Shaken Baby Syndrome or Vaccine Enduced Encephalitis – Are Parents Being Falsely Accused? Written by Dr. Harold Buttram, M.D. and Christina England, Research Journalist"
Here's a "linky" for us who don't have access to "Up ToDate", dingo199
See the Guidelines for treating physiological jaundice of newborn babies from the American Academy of Pediatrics...including the laboratory tests and the algorithm used in newborn nurseries to determine if a newborn should have UV light therapy:
I bet Mrs. dingo199 had a few choice words about your klutziness :-)
I could add to what has already been said about neonatal jaundice, having measured plasma bilirubin on more babies than I care to remember, but I see little point. The child in question had transient neonatal jaundice which rapidly cleared (as you can see from the photo on the mother's website) months before she was beaten to death.
I suppose a determined believer would argue that neonatal jaundice is only common because hepatitis immunisation is common... except that IIRC the frequency of jaundice was already recognised in the early 80s before a hepatitis vaccine was even available.
@ Krebiozen: If you recall the one time that Tonya Sadowsky posted upthread...she claimed that her baby was jaundiced from the hepatitis B vaccine given to Amanda.
BTW, Jeremy Praay resorted to posting as a female under his sock puppet ELloyd and has been busted, here:
IIRC the frequency of jaundice was already recognised in the early 80s before a hepatitis vaccine was even available.
I can certainly attest to that, having measured conjugated and unconjugated bilirubin on babies all through the 80s (not continuously, obviously), and seen many newborns under UV lights on the neonatal unit. According to the estimate from AAFP here up to 60% of newborns have some degree of jaundice with or without the hepatitis vaccine.
If you recall the one time that Tonya Sadowsky posted upthread…she claimed that her baby was jaundiced from the hepatitis B vaccine given to Amanda.
I remember, but even if that was true which as we know is vanishingly unlikely, what possible connection could it have to the child's death months later? It's a red herring, attempting to throw suspicion on vaccines so that blaming them for what happened later doesn't seem so nutty. The whole subject makes me shudder.
@ Krebiozen...Agreed it is "a red herring".
See Harold Buttram's Report on Tonya Sadowsky's blog:
"Hospital Labor, Delivery, and Newborn Records, Southwest General Hospital.
This was the mother’s first pregnancy, with birth at 40.2 weeks gestation. She was 31 years old. Her blood type was O positive.
Uncomplicated delivery was accomplished with pitocin drip augmentation and epidural anesthesia. The mother was also given 2 grams of intravenous ampicillin. Birth took place with nuchal arm presentation (arm came out adjacent to neck).
By phone consultation with the mother, she reported that her perineum “ripped” as the baby’s head emerged (in spite of a preceding episiotomy.)
The baby’s weight was 7 lbs and 10 ozs (75 percentile), length 51.0 cm (75 percentile), head circumference 36.0 cm (95 percentile). APGARS were 9/9. Newborn P.E. was normal.
Hepatitis B vaccine was administered on day-of-birth. (NOTE: On the next day, Feb. 17th, according to mother’s notes, Amanda was brought in to her from the nursery screaming, as “she was bothering the other babies in the nursery,” suggestive of an encephalalitic reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine, something rarely recognized for its true nature. There was no note of vitamin K administration in the records.)
Routine newborn screening blood tests were acceptable, as were CBCs. Bilirubin levels reached a peak of 13.95 on February 18th and dropped to 12.18 on the 19th. On 2-18-07 Amanda was placed under a “heat lamp” according to mother’s notes (This was likely phototherapy)...."
I think Herr Doktor Bimler posted upthread about "encephalalitic reaction" based on Tonya's observation and Amanda's cry.
I suppose that Tonya does believe that Elwood has been wrongfully convicted in her child's death. I also think that she is trying to gain a foothold within the community that defends child batterers and child murderers...now that she has recently graduated college with a paralegal degree. A girl has to have some way to support herself, now that her soon-to-be-ex-husband is incarcerated:
I suppose that Tonya does believe that Elwood has been wrongfully convicted in her child’s death.
I imagine the alternative must be extremely unpleasant to even contemplate, so her denial is at least understandable, which is more than I can say for Buttram and other professional apologizers for child murderers.
Thanks Lilady for the pdf document - the graph for bilirubin is the same one in UptoDate.
So we know for sure that Amanda was NOT jaundiced (not more than physiologically expected, anyway).
Her bilirubin peaked at the 95th centile at 48 hours and then dropped.
Oh, Mrs Dingo wasn't chuffed I can tell you.
I think Herr Doktor Bimler posted upthread about “encephalalitic reaction” based on Tonya’s observation and Amanda’s cry.
Yes indeed. There was a lot of research into baby crying through the 1980s (and it may still be going on for all I know)... one of the goals was to work out the precise acoustic qualities that distinguish a 'pain cry' from a 'hunger cry' and both from a 'boredom cry'. And of course there are distinctive diagnostic cries like the "cri du chat" of Lejeune syndrome.
Suffice to say that the anti-vax concept of “encephalitic cry” did not come up at any time during that research. It is used exclusively on anti-vax websites, by 'experts' who give no indication of any familiarity with the baby-cry literature, solely for the purpose of convincing parents that if their babies are crying a lot in distress (i.e. colicky) then they've been damaged irreparably by vaccines and the parents will forever bear a burden of guilt.
They seem to have borrowed the term 'encephalitic cry' from old homeopathy textbooks, which gives an idea of the expertise they're drawing on.
Turns out that if you take a baby cry and drop the pitch through an octave or two, it sounds like the after-effects of an excessively-hot curry:
@ Doktor Bimler: I know a troll who often posts at AoA under her name...and under various 'nyms on other science blogs, about her infant's encephalitis, following the hepatitis B birth dose.
Her baby was not diagnosed with encephalitis by a physician and did not received intensive care in a hospital...the diagnosis was made by her and her sockies...based on their own *observations*.
@ herr doktor bimler
They seem to have borrowed the term ‘encephalitic cry’ from old homeopathy textbooks,
It's funny how the same usual suspects keep cropping up in alternative movements. The French cancer/GMO guy from a few threads back had a homeopath doctor in his team - which again tells a lot about their knowledge of toxicology.
I'm starting to understand why Orac call homeopathy the one woo to rule them all.
Maybe it's just confirmation bias from us. On the other hand, if the shoe fits...
OK, let me make sure I have this right - it's OK to shake babies now, as long as you don't vaccinate them?
Slightly O/T...Age of Autism has this posted about the fungal meningitis cases, caused by contaminated steroid injections manufactured by a "compounding pharmacy". Notice how the posters at AoA put their own spin on the investigation...and come to the defense of compounding pharmacies (which are big time advertisers on the AoA website:
Wouldn't you think that some of them *might* check the CDC website for some facts, first?
A few thoughts....
* When I was born, I was jaundiced. I was several weeks preterm; not quite a preemie, but earlyish. I was by far the palest baby in the ward where I was born (George Washington University Hospital) and so the nurses were apparently a bit startled by how yellow I turned, although the blood tests indicated it wasn't an especially severe case. But it happens, and I was fine. I did not have the HepB vaccine, as it was 1975. Jaundice is simply very common in newborns; when you consider the acrobatics being undertaken by the body's internal systems within minutes of birth to switch over from umbilical to internal power (so to speak), it's amazing there are ever babies that aren't jaundiced.
* The idea of a child supposedly having home-diagnosed encephalitis and never receiving any sort of medical care for this supposed encephalitis boggles my mind. I had meningitis and encephalitis when I was four. I was extremely ill, and spent two weeks in the hospital. The first week in isolation, in case I had HiB (long story, but the pathogen was never isolated -- and in early 1980, there was no vaccine for that, so they were not taking their chances). These people have no idea what encephalitis is really like. If they genuinely believed, at the time, that their child had encephalitis and did not take the child to a doctor, they are both severely negligent and extremely lucky to have been wrong.
@ Calli Arcale: I presume you had blood cultures and a lumbar puncture to test spinal fluid for the Hib bacterium, but at the time you were hospitalized, sophisticated testing was not available:
Because the type b capsular antigen can be detected in body fluids, including urine, blood, and CSF of patients, clinicians often request a rapid antigen detection test for diagnosis of Hib disease. Antigen detection may be used as an adjunct to culture, articularly in the diagnosis of patients who have received antimicrobial agents before specimens are obtained for culture. The method for antigen detection is latex agglutination (LA). LA is a rapid and sensitive method used to detect Hib capsular polysaccharide antigen in CSF, serum, urine, pleural fluid, or joint fluid but false negative and false positive reactions can occur.
If the Hib antigen is detected in CSF but a positive result is not obtained from culture or sterile site, the patient should be considered as having a probable case of Hib disease and reported as such. Because antigen detection tests can be positive in urine and serum of persons without invasive Hib disease, persons who are identified exclusively by positive antigen tests in urine or serum should not be reported as cases. Real-time PCR detects DNA of all H. influenzae in blood, CSF, or other clinical specimens. A major advantage of PCR is that it allows for detection of H. influenzae from clinical samples in which the organism could not be detected by culture methods, such as when a patient has been treated with antibiotics before a clinical specimen is obtained for culture. Even when the organisms are nonviable following antimicrobial treatment, PCR can still detect H. influenzae DNA. Isolation of the bacterium is needed to confirm H. influenzae invasive disease, determine the serotype, and test for antimicrobial susceptibility.
Your case of Hib meningitis/encephalitis was probably classified as a "probable case" or "partially treated Hib meningitis/encephalitis".
My son underwent many LPs, for fevers of unknown origin and seizures; poor baby he didn't have "normal" reflexes because of his spastic C.P. Once it was determined that he did have a probable case/partially treated bacterial meningitis:
It is interesting that the Journal (JPANDS) that promotes this shake baby denialism also publishes all sorts of bad science in support of their anti-abortion position. The forced birthers don't care a rats ass about what happens to children after they are born.
@ Calli Arcale: Here, CIA Parker tells her *story* again, how *she* diagnosed her baby with *vaccine-induced encephalitis*:
cia parker says:
October 11, 2012 at 11:43 am
I also appreciated your thoughtful post, but I also agree with the Professor that there is no safe vaccine schedule. It’s hard for parents to come to grips with this one, but absolutely necessary. I said I didn’t want my baby to get the hep-B vaccine at the hospital when she was born, they gave it to her anyway, and she reacted with four days and nights of endless screaming, vaccine-induced encephalitis, and was diagnosed with autism at 20 months. The doctor dismissed it as colic, although she was in too much pain to feed and lost one pound two ounces in the first two days of the screaming, when colic does not affect feeding and does not occur in newborns earlier than the third week of life. I misguidedly let her get three Hibs, three polios, and, by 18 months, four DTaPs. The last didn’t work, as we are seeing this year in the pertussis outbreaks in the U.S. , 32,000 so far this year, most among appropriately vaccinated people. My baby caught pertussis at a La Leche League meeting at 8 months old, and gave it to me. It was scary, but not dangerous, and we both, after coughing for over a month, recovered with permanent immunity. My baby had already been brain-damaged by the criminal, ridiculous hep-B vaccine, but had started saying uh for up and uff for dog by 18 months. She got the DTaP booster at that time, and it erased her two words forever, and she didn’t say another word until 34 months old.
I thought I was being super-responsible, refusing the MMR and the varicella vaccine (we missed their pushing the Prevnar vaccine by a few months, this was in 2000-1), and taking her for lots of separate visits to avoid getting more than one shot per visit. And she still had at least two vaccine reactions so serious that they caused her autism.
The shots come in two categories, those for formerly common, nearly always relatively mild illnesses like measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough (pertussis), flu, and hepatitis A, or for rare diseases like meningitis, hepatitis, or tetanus. Nearly everyone has subclinical exposure to these diseases and has developed immunity by the time they are adults, if they have not been vaccinated. Hib and Prevnar germs are carried by a large percentage of people all the time without their causing any problems, and taking out one kind of germ only paves the way for the surge of another, more serious kind.
Women who may become pregnant have to decide whether to test for immunity to rubella and chance serious adverse reactions to the rubella vaccine, girls should not have to do so. If they are lucky, they’ll get this mild infection as children and develop permanent immunity. Infants should be quarantined at home if there’s pertussis in town in their first months of life: no one should take the risk of the still very dangerous pertussis vaccine. The disease is usually only dangerous to young infants. Hib meningitis is usually only dangerous to babies, and breastfeeding and keeping them out of daycare offer good protection.
A healthy future for our society depends on our replacing the vaccine paradigm with better alternatives, healthier diet etc. and naturopathic and homeopathic treatment rather than allopathic, only resorting to antibiotics when absolutely necessary.
And Twyla holds these nimrods out to be the paragon of critical-thinking. I weep for the future of their children.
@ Science Mom: Twyla has been busy posting on yet another LaCrosse Tribune blog and she touts the TMR:
If you do decide to post there, post over Twyla's last post. She's just dying to have the last word.
It is interesting that the Journal (JPANDS) that promotes this shake baby denialism also publishes all sorts of bad science in support of their anti-abortion position. The forced birthers don’t care a rats ass about what happens to children after they are born.
Some other SCM blogger wrote about JP&S once:
I had *two* spinal taps, but the hospital managed to lose both specimens. (I am told the hospital was extremely busy at the time, which may have been a factor. They were also running out of supplies too, and I remember being very jealous that I didn't get to ride in the cool cart with the IV stand. Instead, I always got a regular old wheelchair when they brought me out of my room to do stuff, because somebody else had the cart every time.) Therefore, I will never know exactly what caused my meningitis. They probably would have tested for HiB, and certainly would at least have tested for whether or not it was bacterial. They treated me on the presumption of bacterial meningitis, but the course of the illness eventually suggested viral meningitis and they discontinued the antibiotics. I was released after about two weeks. I have some good memories of the hospital; they had an awesome play area for sick kids, including my favorite bit: a whole bathtub full of soap bubble solution. And I remember one doctor (or nurse; at that age doctors and nurses are fairly interchangeable) giving me a ride on my IV stand. I stood on the stand and he pushed it around the hall. Great staff at that hospital; I say that even though they bollixed up the spinal tap, because that was really the only thing that went wrong, and they were always so kind to me.
Now I'm reading cia parker's story after answering your question about the spinal tap and why they don't know what caused mine. And WOW.
they gave it to her anyway, and she reacted with four days and nights of endless screaming, vaccine-induced encephalitis, and was diagnosed with autism at 20 months. The doctor dismissed it as colic, although she was in too much pain to feed and lost one pound two ounces in the first two days of the screaming, when colic does not affect feeding and does not occur in newborns earlier than the third week of life
1) If you think your baby has encephalitis, you don't call your doctor, you go to the ER. Now. Encephalitis kills.
2) Four days of endless screaming? HAH! Baby. Try two months. That's what it was with my oldest. She had *real* colic. Not just struggling to learn how to feed and cope with life outside the womb, but sheer agony that lasted months. Guess what? It wasn't encephalitis. It was colic. And anyone who says colic doesn't affect feeding is insane. Some colicky babies can eat just fine. Mine could, thankfully. Many can't. Depends on what's causing the pain, probably. Colic isn't really a diagnosis; it's a symptom.
3) Most babies lose weight in their first week. Over a pound is unusual, but not unheard of. Usually, it's because they haven't figured out how to suckle yet. My first took quite a while to figure it out, and lost about the same amount of weight. (Fortunately, she was a little porker when she was born, two weeks overdue.)
As to the rest of that . . .
@ Calli Arcale: Here, enjoy...
Gee, she has *no friends* there, wanna *friend* her. :-)