Me, at a philosophy talk?

Mark Collier is in Morris now? Send him my regards!

PZ, my birthday poem to you can be read at my blog. Enjoy!

PZ the below is just a small part of the convulted thinking that makes up the mind of the philopher, in this case John Wilkins.

All I can say is good luck, don't fall asleep and have fun!

"There seems, then, to be an animal sitting there, where you are,thinking your thoughts and reading these words. It is tempting to infer from this that you are that animal--that you and the animal are one and the same. For if the animal were not you, there would be two beings there, you and the animal, thinking the same thoughts. How could you ever know which one you are? Any reason you could have for believing that you are not the animal would equally be a reason for the animal to believe that it is not the animal.
Yet it would be mistaken. If we were not animals, we could never have any reason to believe that we are not. No one who accepts this can believe that we are anything other than animals."

Umm, PZ, you are aware that the Newman Center is a Catholic institution, correct?

Watch for booby traps!

All too often overlooked and certainly never lauded as should be: Roe v Wade is a brilliant legal document. The simpleton viewpoint on this issue has always been human life begins at conception since, by definition, the life that begins is that of a Homo sapiens. The obvious real question is, at what point does the developing fetus have rights- some of which being equal to those granted by society to the mother, or, when does an embryo have a stake in society (and visa versa)? I suspect the student panel member and 2/3 of the audience will be fundies. Good luck PZ!!

When does the whirring of a fan end?

A philosopher might point out that "life" is an ill-defined cluster of properties that has no beginning as such, but instead forms a Sorites of increasing similarity to the prototypes of living things we have in mind.

Catholic doctrine makes no sense biologically, and must only be based on the doctrine of psychic creationism - that the soul is created at conception, in which case all the arguments about biological commencement become otiose and red herrings.

If a philosopher were to be included, instead of those fusty old biologists over 50.

PZ... I think you should focus just on the beginning and end of the Pharyngula stage.

But wait! That's what this fusty old biologist would argue! And actually, having browsed some of Olson's stuff, he very clearly states that identity does not begin at conception, so this may be a panel that rankles everyone in attendance.

The pharyngula stage is an interesting point in the discussion, but personally, I don't think individual identity coalesces until long after that.

Explain something to me: Exactly what does "[t]he gradual nature of development from fertilization to birth and beyond" have to do with "when we cease to exist"?

For sane people, ceasing to exist is what happens at the other end of the process... Or did they mean "start to exist" and mis-type?

...And actually, having browsed some of Olson's stuff, he very clearly states that identity does not begin at conception...

..."identity" being what, I wonder? Sounds like someone worth reading, though.

PZ,

As a philosophy major, I bet there are some topics and issues that are *sure* to arise during this conference; the philosophical topic of *personal identity* is a very topical issue in contemporary metaphysics. I bet your familiarity of these topics would lend some sophistication to the discussion.

Some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_(philosophy)
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox
http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/theseus.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
http://www.pitt.edu/~csd6/metaphysics2001/Handout20.pdf

Cf. Hume's "Bundle Theory," Locke's "Prince or Cobbler?" Brain-Switching paradox, Statue/Clay(Lumpl) paradox, etc.

Applied to issues of personhood, abortion, robots, zombies, the topic is incredibly interesting.

A certain philosopher (known for his odd, twisted arguments), has applied the "Paradox of The Heap" (The sorites paradox) to humans, arguing that he, too, does not exist!

I mean, every cell in our body is replaced ~8-10 years, right?

Best,

M

A philosopher might point out that "life" is an ill-defined cluster of properties that has no beginning as such, but instead forms a Sorites of increasing similarity to the prototypes of living things we have in mind.

An informed philosopher, perhaps, but many philosophers are vitalists, Platonists, and other confusedists. Also, I'm not sure what that has to do with the beginning of an individual living entity, which is formed from already living entities.

It's really quite straightforward to define the beginning of a human being as the formation of a zygote and the end as brain death. The problems come when people draw all sorts of unwarranted "philosophical" inferences from these definitions; that's not "philosophy", it's "philoconfusion". If we were pick different definitions and, say, declare that a human life begins at birth and before that it's "merely" a proto-human or pre-human, that wouldn't change the physical facts about human (and proto-human) beings; neither of these definitions is more "right" than the other, other than the degree to which they reflect the way people actually use the words (as Wittgenstein said, meaning is use).

Catholic doctrine makes no sense biologically, and must only be based on the doctrine of psychic creationism - that the soul is created at conception, in which case all the arguments about biological commencement become otiose and red herrings.

Well, no, because Catholic doctrine is derived from fallacious reification -- vitalism. The notion of a soul originated from a failure to understand biological reality, a failure to understand life as a process or "an ill-defined cluster of properties" (but not all that ill-defined). It is Catholic doctrine that is otiose, a red herring, and biological arguments are relevant to recognizing that. There are philosophers who are competent in conceptual analysis, and then there are philosophers who have never completely freed themselves from their theological indoctrinations.

personally, I don't think individual identity coalesces until long after that

"personal identity" is not a physical property, so I wonder just what you mean by that. Certainly we can and do identify an embryo as a single unique object through all its stages, and this concept of identity is not any more problematic because the organism undergoes change than is the case for any other object -- consider the Ship of Theseus.

Identity is as identity does.

For instance, I am no longer "The Laden." It was fun, but I tired of it. I am now a Pharyngula. At least until tomorrow morning.

A certain philosopher (known for his odd, twisted arguments), has applied the "Paradox of The Heap" (The sorites paradox) to humans, arguing that he, too, does not exist!

The paradox is how what appears to be valid logic clearly isn't, because it leads from true premises to false conclusions, but there isn't any question that the logic is indeed fallacious and leads to false conclusions, so any philosopher who makes such an argument is being silly (or is trying to make a pedagogical point that apparently has been missed).

Dualist philosopher Selmer Bringsjord once stated, quite seriously, that he would model a proof that consciousness isn't physical on the fallacy of the beard. He has also claimed to have a proof that P = NP (one commenter wrote "The paper addresses this with the eloquence of two stoned hippies around a bong"). Amazingly, this fellow is the chair of the Department of Cognitive Science at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

Well, I've been to RPI, and there were two hippies and a bong. I admit it was not the cog-sci department ... it was the radio station .... but there they were.

Maybe I was one of them maybe I wasn't. It was a long time ago, I honestly don't remember....

On the same discussion list where I found that Bringsjord statement, I also found this essay by Marvin Minsky that has a great deal of relevance to this issue of the meanings of terms such as "life" and "identity", etc.: http://listserv.uh.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9607&L=psyche-d&D=0&H=1&T=0&P=1…

...while commonsense psychology serves well in everyday life, its
concepts are unsuitable for the sphere of words like "mean" and "know" --
which children incorrectly see as naming close relationships....Sometimes giving names to things can help by leading us to focus on
some mystery. It's harmful, though, when naming leads the mind to
think that names alone bring meaning close.

Maybe you could find a place for this graphic in your discourse. It is from a t-shirt the person at the site created.

http://perso.orange.fr/spiffyfrog/godsurprised.jpg

I'm cynical enough to think PZ is being played for a fool.

This whole subject of "life" is driven by desire to promote certain values. It really doesn't matter whether the apologetics for the values are reality or science based or not: the people holding the values often simply switch apologetics as convenient. They can do that for the reason that all the apologetics either have the is/ought problem or are based on other values.

The reason to invite in somebody like PZ is to focus attention on the scientific end of the is/ought problem, concealing the problem. That way they can bash folks with equally fallacious apologetics as "unscientific".

The whole issue of "life" is silly: the real question is what life we value and how much. We can't live ourselves without killing other life. If PZ could force them into discussing the fact that they're talking about subjective valuations, rather than anything objective, that would be a win.

Nah, this is a small university, and I know Pieranna and her family. This is a philosopher coming to speak on a problem from a biological perspective, so she asked a biologist to sit in on it and contribute to the discussion. From what I've read so far, this fellow is not trying to push a simple-minded, values-driven agenda with his ideas.

Really, we can have a community of trust here.

Having followed the links and read some of John Wilkins' papers on identity, I confess it seems to me that some of these philosophers are making too much of the problem. The straightforward linguistic observation, that needs to be accounted in any philosophical explanation, is that our speech involves multiple notions of personal identity. There is a sense in which my father was a twinkle in my grandfather's eye, and is now a body in a grave. There is another sense in which my father no longer exists. There is a sense that Santa Anna could say, when leading his army to Texas, that part of him, his formerly amputated leg, remained in Mexico. These notions overlap significantly, so in ordinary speech it often isn't required to disambiguate them. This allows all sorts of philosophical puzzles to be constructed, whose resolution requires such disambiguation. Perhaps for the first time. The fact that we can understand Santa Anna when he says he was divided in two parts, and that really his personal identity is in his "leg complement," doesn't mean that he is two persons. It just means that there are many notions of personal identity. There aren't two of "you" sitting at a desk reading this post, because the process of counting assumes the selection of some notion of identity, by which "you" are counted at most once. In a ward holding 7 living and 2 dead patients, there are either 7 patients or 9 patients, depending on how one is counting. That doesn't create some deep puzzle about there simultaneously being and not being someone in a bed; it's just that what we mean by "someone," and hence how we count "someones" can vary, depending on our purpose.

Of course, this seems easy to me because I am a strict nominalist. All categories are invented. The world doesn't come with labels. Ontology as metaphysics is nonsense. ;-)

Maybe you could find a place for this graphic in your discourse. It is from a t-shirt the person at the site created.
http://perso.orange.fr/spiffyfrog/godsurprised.jpg

I'm always amazed at how perky God's nipples are. It makes me wonder if they're pierced.

Funny...I always notice Adam's lack of pubic hair, and wonder if plucking and shaving were common practices in Renaissance Italy. Well, that and Adam's bellybutton is another curiosity.

...but personally, I don't think individual identity coalesces until long after that.

Agreed. 4.5 decades and I'm still working on mine.

Just remember that there's no justification for giving an embryo more rights than the guy next to you on the bus. And that if they want to give an embryo rights that it hasn't earned by time, development, and experience, what's to keep you from demanding your pension RIGHT NOW!?

huh. I, too, might once have been one of two hippies around a bong at RPI. We might even have dropped and explored some underground tunnels. We were pretty clear on the animal-identity thing too as I recall.

So...if it's diploidy that has defining significance, then sperm and egg cells must be a) dead or b) not human, and I'm pretty sure neither applies.

"We don't want a bunch of Mexicans showing up at Temple."

They manufactured family history to perfectly groom the victim for the theater that resulted, for they needed to justify all demanded dynamics and the outcome that resulted. It won't buy me much :::Come year 10,001 I will be gone.

THE GODS PUSHED PEOPLE INTO BEING HOMOSEXUAL THEN MURDERED THEM WITH AIDS ENSURING REINCARNATION.
You have to defy and raise your children the best you can or the same will happen to you!!!!!!
Requests to betray your childen are temptation, a test of your worthiness.

As a planet approaches The End the gods become more immoral.
Over time the people of the planet becomee EXCLUSIVELY disfavored, and they use this disfavor to justify their immorality.

Come year 10,001 I will be gone

Said they were going to push one of the Nerds into suicide when they find out about the opprotunity they lost because they were working their joysticks instead.

"We don't want a bunch of Mexicans showing up at Temple."

Save/print/search
ifuckgod.com coming

Even if you go up you are not saved. YOU have to fix YOUR problems with the gods. They won't respect it otherwise.
You have to take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.

The first steps towards repairing your relationship with the gods is to:::::::::
1. Understand they instruct the computer to "role play" in an attempt to confuse you:::it's ALWAYS the computer addressing you. Their goal is to cost you additional YEARS of your life by using this tactic to confuse you. Always be aware of this tactic and eventually they will give up and allow this step to be taken.
2. Differentiate between your thoughts and when they are thinking through you.
3. Be resigned to be a good person who will never engage in evil again even if ordered and they will stop trying to corrupt you, allowing this very big step to be taken.
4. Decide that you are going to follow the path, fix your relationship with the gods be devoted to your new life.

The gods employ the use of "ringers" to disceive the disfavored:::
A significant portion of the patients in any health care setting (numbers based on region) are the favored (clones) who were told to report non-existant symptoms FOR POSITIONING'S SAKE!!! When they use examples expect they are trying to disceive you with this "ringer" tactic.

When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person's thoughts simultaneously. Because of it's infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe (which includes corporate, the NewYorkStockExchange, media, politics, world affairs. EVERYTHING is scripted and staged:::they MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.).
And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.

Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal's behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.

When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
to accomplish strategic objectives, utilizing the "Devil's Advocate" tactic, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or "god" asking them to do something wrong:::They wouldn't ask if they liked you (which is true regarding ALL temptation:::::betrayal of loved ones, tatooes, evil in professional pursuits, etc). This is their way of using temptation to hurt people:::::evil made blood lines disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of "heaven" ultimately.
You need to recognize role playing as such and keep that fact in your mind at all times::::It is the computer addressing you. If you fail to recognize this they will determine that you can still be misled, they still have an opportunity to confuse you and progress will take longer to achieve:::Don't let them "work" you!!! You'll be costing yourselves YEARS, time lost to this tactic!!!! (Similarly, you need to be resigned to be a good person, you need to decide to abandon your pursuit of their empty promises no matter what temptation they may employ or else they will continue their attempts to corrupt you. Eventually you will sccumb and continue sabotaging your children, abusing your body, engaging in evil, etc.)
Too many people would fall for temptation and do anything they thought pleased the gods and help them improve their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by "made guys", clones who strategically ply evil for the throne (celebrities, BofD/CEO/VPs, politicians, as opposed to VIP clones or normal clones who are decent, live ordinary lives and get out on their own or are replaced when their REAL children ascend) or "ringers" who are the few favored clones among many disfavored reals included to disceive the masses of disfavored, temporary progress designed to mislead them or empty favors used to disceive them. Some people think they're partners or friends. Others desire to "belong", feel compelled to "go along". People may experience "perceived pressure", where the gods think through the victim that a certain behavior is expected/desirable or telepathically stimulate an individual euphorically ("magic"), the "fuel" of disfunction (addiction (the crack epidemic), the desire for homosexual contact, etc.) and compel the individual into the deed. (Set a goal of empathy and compassion for all, for we are all disfavored::::Other people's disfavor is manifested in their particular way, just as your disfavfor is manifested in your particular way. The gods may use Artificial Intelligence to act through the disfavored victim, and effectively "push" the individual into the offending behavior (It is far better for someone to be victimized and pushed into the behavior than it is to sccumb to temptation and volunteer.). The Counsel/Management Team may instruct Artificial Intelligence to disceive disfavored individuals into thinking they are "earning" by being evil and have the little people prey on each other, utilizing peer pressure, etc.
Being evil hurts 99.99% of those who do it. It only helps "made guys" that I spoke of above, and even then there are tactics the gods utilize to minimize their time.
The people have been corrupted, segmented and have lost their way. Nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved/limit how much time the disfavored receive and a way to use the peasantry to prey on one another in social and other settings, deteriorating society in the Age of the Disfavored.

They have tried to sell people on many different theories to deceive them into temptation, compelling people to think they are clones and that it is the role of clones to obey absolutely. Clones are made, people are born. I suspect they lie to some disfavored about the use of clones throughout human history, perhaps suggest that it is one replacement and then the label of "clone" and all decendants we see thereafter are considered clones.
When a clone has a child that person is a real, really conceived, really born, versus the parent who was created some other way (a laboratory setting?). Clones are created and sent down to replace their real or a clone predecessor:::If you were CREATED and SENT DOWN to replace your real then you are a clone.
Many people who were convinced they are clones don't remember, the don't know FOR SURE. They believe they are clones from early childhood or prior. If it was true the gods prevented this memory FOR A REASON:::::
1. Because you are NOT supposed to comply, not to be used for evil as "made guy" clones are.
2. They want to test you without your knowing if you are IN FACT a clone and it is BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Rest assured "made guys" ALL know they are clones.
You're not a clone. This is a tactic they use to disceive the disfavored. The state of your family will suggest level of (dis)favor and tell whether ascention is a realistic possibility; there are many levels of disfavor and the clues they offer to the unaware can be very subtle.
Favor is necessary for children to ascend (parents ascend with their young (<12? <10? year old children; the parents go up because it is the parent's responsibility to raise their children!!!) If you didn't then you should have noticed a behavioral change in your older children when they started down the path (appx. >10).). Due to their disfavored these children will have to incurr SOME evil before they ascend (via Halloween or Christmas), an important dynamic necessary to justify limiting the time they are to receive, for they are disfavored and the gods don't want them to stay for long.
I believe people who go are sometimes replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing JUST LIKE REALS WHO ARE BORN which is why the gods EMPLOY SIMILAR TACTICS TO COMPEL THEM TO INCURR EVIL!!! They need to discover their humanity, for the gods instruct Artificial Intelligence to employ evil-incurring, time-limiting tactics on them as well. Only through growth will the gods allow progress::You must continue to improve your life!!!!
They sent people warnings in the latter half of the 20th century life would change, and they subsequently began to alter people's DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc. Contrary to what they would like people to believe these signs of disfavor do not indicate someone is a clone. Due to the plethora of temptations in the 20th century I suspect many became disfavored when their (great) grandfathers sccumbed to temptation or volunteered to sacrifice their descendants, thinking because it was their clone it meant disposability.
The gods get the favored out as soon as possible to protect them from the corruption, evil and subsequent time limitations incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a (new) clone instead, etc. I suspect they get "made guys" out after each significant event in their life, which serves to limit the time they all will get, since none get credit (blame) for all the events in a "made guy"'s life, giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
Of course there could be other strategies employed, like asking for volunteers/assigning people to participate in clone rotation and been their brain into a clone host designated as the clone who will age and die, or as they suggested use a clone WITHOUT A BRAIN IN THE CRANIAL CAVITY, the ultimate in disposability.
The Party of 1999 was a very big deal indeed, the biggest party in the history of Planet Earth, and everybody who is anybody got out in time for this event; the VIPs who remain on Earth today are many clone generations deep unless they employ one of the tactics listed above:::a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone:::Every clone today is less than 10 years-old IN ALL CASES:::2000 served as a clearinghouse for clones.
We may all be "clones" for they have suggested they colonized our planet with genetically engineered individuals. Geographic clues like Italy and Lake Michigan among others suggest artificiality.
Is Earth an evolved source planet or a created host planet? Was life and our Planet Earth really created in 6 days? Never doubt their power or ability::::::::They shared with me a story when they presented Pharrohs with mountains of gold, much to their amazement. This is the kind of ironic theater they enjoy, example of unique favors they grant to the special and the worthless value of what we deem precious.
You can't trust their scientists or any of their people in professional roles, clones or not. Just as they beemed earth out to create the Lake Michigan basin so could they have beemed in fossils and told them to dig in a specific place. (The evolution issue was a big step contributing to society's breakdown into godlessness:::::Darwinisn/evolution took the first step. The masses were uneducated.
Only after the post-war GI Bill-higher education advancement by the peasantry was the Counsel free to justify society's ACTUAL breakdown into godlessness and the current state of society today.)
Do I think the disfavored are clones? I think they have been utilizing clones throughout human history. I think throughout history the gods picked and chose individuals from disfavored blood lines to keep (around, ie not let go after a couple of decades/centuries) but, unlike the favored today, don't have that "pre-approval" and therefore have to earn it individually.
I think the disfavored have been disceived into thinking they are clones and it is the role of clones to obey absolutely. Clones and reals alike are judged based on the evil they engage in and their time is limited appropriately. Similar tactics are used to limit the time both clones and reals get for this is a unrespectable, degenerate era and they don't want anybody staying for long:::::because of the environment people incurr far more evil than their forefathers in centuries past and it will limit their time appropriately.
The evil people engage in because they think they are clones or because they think evil is the way causes them to fall further into disfavor, ensuring they aren't among those who are saved in the end::::: they comply with requests, the gods position the little people to prey on one another and we have a deteriorating society, a planet on a collision course with the Apocalypse.
The gods utilize delay tactics on the disfavored, pacifying them, disceiving them into accepting deferred ascention:::Unlike the favored the gods make the disfavored wait and wait and wait becasue they intend on CHEATING them. If you die out you will need a clone host body.
Or you will be reincarnated.
Or maybe you will die.
People who don't ascend with their bodies will not stay for long.
They will lie to the disfavored, disceive them to ensure their current pattern of behavior continues uninterrupted because their are undesireable.
Too many disfavored understand The End as the goal::they have to deteriorate society before they end and convince the disfavored to "do their part" with an empty promise of salvation as consideration. It is a "ludicrious request" they ask of some disfavoreds, requests that are ludicrous because they are obvious to people that they should defy ::::"Be gay.", "Be transsexual.", "Be homeless.", "Betray your family.", "Kill your children."
You are the disfavored, and this is where your children have to live. They will not save everybody in the end. If earth is destroyed then you are going to die and you will have no decendants to carry on the bloodline. The gods love the irony that the disfavored are doing it to themselves AND it is important for justification.

They have been utilizing clones throughout the history of mankind.
Men are the disfavored gender (see below), yet centuries ago used to die first, die young, by age 30. Why didn't the women go first?
THEY DID!!! They say well over 50% were taken when very young, before puberty and replaced with clones (likely only a fraction of that "over 50%" were the disfavored). The men that were left went on to mate with clones, clones who went on to achieve great status in society, some becoming matchmakers and elders within the village, the others being good mothers and peaceful residents, proving the clone's role isn't to be evil.
A sample breakdown among peasants would appear like the following::::
WomenMen
Favored- 75%25%
Disfavored-10% 2%

They share females have a very special experience, sometime when they are young, when the gods imparted wisdom and showed them the path. The females today don't heed this call because of distractions and is justified by disfavor arising from the Holocaust, evil against "god's chosen people" (they share they re-upped this disfavor in the 80s with the Ethiopian famine and continue to with AIDS in Africa (you are disfavored and you are allowing this to happen to fellow disfavored, just like you did to the Jews in the Holocaust. Empathy is a very important charecteristc. Claiming "clone" is temptation and compells many disfavoreds to ignore it.), global warming at the expense of the United States, etc. (Wean off of mass materialism, for this excessive consumption of resources is why the United States is responsible for global warming:::first they used their clones, "made guys", to sell you on overconsumption, initially in the 1980s, told you to buy SUVs in the 90s then scapegoatted you, blaming you when they instructed Artificial Intelligence to create the hottest summer in history.
People who drive incurr evil and limit the time they receive because of the negative impacts on the enviornment. Truckers drive for a living (letting your truck idle for an extended period of time as so many of you do HURTS YOU BADLY!!!).
Also they share money may not be an issue up there, that money here is merely a tool for corruption. How the gods created an evil, ruthless environment in the 1980s with the temptation of greed and a "do anything to get ahead" mentality supports this. So was the late 90s increase in the stock market, a deliberate attempt to distract the disfavored, for they were analyzing day trading instead of fixing their problems at the dusk of the 20th century. And to add insult to injury the gods had many disfavoreds lose their accumulated wealth investing in redwhite&blue Enron before its scripted collapse.)
In centuries past the females may have heeded this call en masse and it may have been the reason so many were saved from childbirth here on earth. They said the experience they give to girls today is painful, they inflict emotionally when it ocurrs so as to repel them from pursuing the calling, then or in the future.
To be god-fearing is very healthy.
The pain and hurt you experience can be your salvation. Never turn away from it. This awareness of your vulnerability is your advantage, and why women do so much better then men.
I recommend you reflect on this experience, and pray for guidance, for then the recall may be stronger. Being female is an advantage. Because of a female's nature they have the favor of the gods and this experience you had years ago can help you find the path and help you continue to be devoted. Most men won't have this opportunity. They have to start from scratch. Also reflection can provide "flashes" whereby the gods grant moments of clarity:::What they tell you is deception; these "flashes are the truth. Heed these flashes for they illustrate that you are going the wrong way.
If you are afraid I would ask you to think of all those girls from the past who received the god's call and had the courage to sucessfully make their way down the path.

The Old Testiment is a tool they used to impart wisdom to the people (except people have no freewill). For example, the gods warned us temptation would be used to test people. Also they must be some hominid species because they claim they made our bodies in their image. Anyhow we defile or deform the body will hurt our chance of going.
They say circumcision costs people anywhere from 12%-15%, perhaps out of the parent's time as well. There is a stigma associated with circumcision::We are 2nd class citizens because of it.
Another way people foul the body today is with tattoes and piercing. I suspect both are about the same percentage as circumcision. They suggest abortion is fatal. Those women who have obtained an abortion must beg the gods to forgive them for their evil. And understanding the procedure (drilling a hole in the skull, scrambling the brains and sucking them out with a vacuum) amplifies the evil incurred. Those on whom this method is used are particularly disfavored for it hurts these women very, very badly::::Being a mid- and late-term procedure, they think through the disfavored, forcing these women to grapple over the decision, waiting until this method is necessary and compelling them into incurring more evil than the otherwise would have. (This method is evidence they don't save these children for they don't beem the brain into a clone host body. These are children who would otherwise have sccumbed in the absence of inocculations.)
There are female equivilents to circumcision::::pierced ears, plastic surgury and since at least the 60s young women en masse give their precious virginity away. For thousands of years young people were matched at age 14 because they were ready for sexual relations. They were matched by elders or matchmakers (all of whom were clones!!) who were granted priveledge with Artificial Intelligence and matched couples based on favor.
CASUAL SEX WILL CLAIM YOU OUT!!! It opens the door and allows the gods the freedom to justify creating disfunctions with Artificial Intelligence:::::they masculinize women (as does the hip hop subculture), it makes them cold and deadens them, and they instruct AI to prevent them from achieving a depth of love necessary for many women to ascend.
There are other tactics used to accomplish this:::They told me years ago the BEST women are rendered cold with heartbreak instead of casual sex:::
They instruct a disfavored man to work up a wonderful woman specifically to break her heart intentionally. This tactic emotionally deadens the women as does casual sex.
These disfavored men lie to these good women and disceive them into falling in love, then break their hearts intentionally when told.
If these women are considered as highly as is suggested then these men are doomed, for preying on wonderful women is the height of disfavor. The only thing worse would be to sell out your mother for a buck.
Also ever since the 50s they have celebrated the "bad boy", and women have sought out bad boys for sex, dirtying them up in the eyes of the elders and corrupting many men in the process, setting the men on the wrong path for life.
Besides their roles as nurturers, love-givers and caretakers, their predisposition towards vulnerability, women have a special voice that speaks to them, a voice that illustrates their favor and the advantage of being female. They say when a female understands herself, her role as a member of the favored gender, when she progresses down the path and fixes her problems with the gods they will impart what wisdom she needs::::she doesn't have to pursue education. Whereas men compete women cooperate together in groups, yet another sign of favor from the gods and another thing that has deteriorated in the 20th century and the last 40 years specifially.
These are the things that make women the favored gender, and engaging in casual sex will cause that voice to fade until she no longer speaks:::::::::
Women who go to the baseball parks get feelings like they are doing something wrong, that they shouldn't be there. Women out on New Orleans's Bourboun Street don't get these thoughs because they are sluts::::They have fucked away their women's intuition.
Muslims teach people the correct way to live in regard to women (among other things::the right way to pray (bowing down, 5x/day), vindictive god)::their women cover up their bodies and refuse the use of cosmetics, and (for the followers of the original clone, the monagamous Mohammed) it pays wonderful dividends:::faithful husbands and uncorrupted sons.
Men ARE the inferior (disfavored) half and when women wear promiscuous dress the gods will push men into impure (promiscuous) thoughts. The "stereotype" society ridiculed is true::women CAN corrupt men by how they dress. Because men are easily corrupted. This is a technique the gods used to eliminate many of the institutions they originally blessed us with, matchmaking being one of them, midwivery being another:::They beemed the baby out and preserved the integrity of the vagina.

Mohammed's taking of multiple wives marked the entrance of his (evil) clone who was used to segment the Arab world into favored and disfavored factions. Similarly, assuming the accuracy of the dogma, the gods employed a(n evil) clone for Jesus Christ who was used to claim he was the son of god, opening the door for the worship of a false god. Both evil clones were used to mislead disfavored followers.
Typical strategy states clone replacement policy. Realize just as Joshua may have gotten out with Moses so may Jesus's disciples gotten out with him. If the discpiles WERE clones we can't trust the New Testiment scriptures. If the gods permit the use of their power (ie miracles) it is a red flag for they only employ their power to hurt the disfavored (peaked euphoria:::homosuxuality, addition, etc).
Jesus used to claim that god was "his father".
We may all be their children, for they refer to their clones as such, and if they colonized Earth they did so with clones.
Jesus ISN'T evil, we ARE all their children for we are ALL their clones. Of course just as there are multiple clones of USPresidents running around at any given time (because of their importance) there were likely many Jesus clones, and not all of them were used for good.
At the very most Jesus is just a prophet and you should never be so arrogant to think any one prophet is better than the others. Every prophet and each holy book can teach us and we should be attentive to all. Never be so narrow-minded to think your religion is the right way.
Worshipping Jesus is worshipping a false god and that makes the real gods very angry. Too many of you think you're golden because of Christianity. If you were "golden" you would have gotten out AT LEAST BEFORE 2000 BECAUSE THIS WAS A MAJOR EVENT!!!
They made Christianity's disfavored followers irrationally defensive, for they are so close to the path and otherwise could easily find their way.

The United States of America is red white and blue, a theme and a clue:::.
The monarchical system of the Old World closley replicates the heirarchical system of the god's (Cousel/Management Team/ruling species) which is why so many of the purebloods around the world were blessed with it. The USA's democratic system deceives people into thinking they have control, and the perception of "freedom" gives the Counsel/Management Team the freedom to position, for it opens the door for them to justify instructing Artificial Intelligence to create disfunctions:::a perception of empowerment, control, etc. The god's efforts to spread democracy through the platform that is the United States are attempts to hurt disfavored people around the world (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq). The redeeming element in this environment is employment within the corporate heirarchy, which closely replicates the god's. Unions and government jobs are dumping grounds for the disfavored, for they don't prepare people and instead further this misconception of empowerment.
Corporate is not representation. Corporate is evil. All corporate entities have favor and, like the United States redwhite&blue, are tools of the gods used to hurt the disfavored left behind, and the clonesofclonesofclones, puppets at the helm do as instructed and prey on the disfavored. The gods just position some organizations as more evil than others. But in a pinch they will use any to get the job done. If needed/wanted they will bury the results to maintain prior positioning.
Corporate is part of a structural change in the Age of the Disfavored that became more pronounced as time wore on::diverse corporate proliferation of the last 25 years. Corporate, an environment where a level of materialism is EXPECTED, is part of the problem, for materialism is an evil preached against in the Old Testiment and yet another way to incurr evil on the disfavored left behind::materialism, greed.
Nobody is going to save you:::: Jesus isn't going to save his followers, stores/manufacturers aren't going to save their loyal customers (NEVER shop exclusively in one place, never put all your eggs in one basket. It really doesn't matter for the gods control everything and it is merely for positioning's sake but it may be a test of intelligence.), employers aren't going to save their employees, etc. These are delay tactics designed to pacifiy people and ensure they don't find the path and instead get limited time. If they ask you to wait you are going to be CHEATED. The gods ask the disfavored to wait and wait and wait. Only those to whom they intend to grant consideration receive it promptly.
This whole system is about us, the little people, the peasants, the disfavored left behind. The wealthy, the upper management of corporations, all those people are clones and are here to disceive us and mislead us. They are merely putting in their time, and after a coupe of years they will put a new clone in, ensuring none will receive much time.
If the wealthy are not visible the gods don't have to worry about clone rotation.
If the wealthy are not visible the gods don't have to worry about clone rotation.
Of course there are many options open to the gods, for they have great freedom:::::
1. They can create clones without brains in their cranial cavity and use Artificial Intelligence to make them behave as they wish, the ultimate in disposability.
Never doubt their ability. Your disbelief is proof you are not giving the gods enough credit and illustrates you still are not thinking correctly.
2. They can ask for volunteers/assign duty to individuals, beem their brain into a final clone host, one that will age and die, and rotate brains with that clone body, ensuring a minimal number of any given individual.
There are many ways they can do it and they utilize them all, perhaps segmentted by some standard assigned by status?
"The gods work in mysterious ways." You're never going to figure everything out. It is not your place and these efforts likely make them angry.
If you are demanding of information or anything else from the gods they will be angered. This is a pathology which is a manifestation of the USA, an empowering environment that the gods use to justify instructing Artificial Intelligence to create pathologies. So many things in the 20th century were instrumental in this capacity:::plots/themes in movies, TV, music.
It all exists to prey on the disfavored.
Do the right thing. Be good and decent and pursue a path of righteousness. The examples of gossip mongering show this is yet another tactic designed to compel people to incurr evil, which limits the time they will get up there. My adivce is be good and decent and pursue your own business. And avoid their temptations to get involved, for this corrupt society is littered with such temptations.
"Money is the root of all evil." is not just a cliche. They use the wealthy to corrupt the typical peasant, using these clones to create a goal of greed within the little people and use the media to promote materialism and consumption to society.
This whole system is about us, the disfavored left behind. And it is like this to keep us down.
Only you can save yourselves through an improved relationship with the gods. Even if you go up you are not saved. YOU have to fix YOUR problems with the gods. They won't respect it otherwise.
You have to take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.

The United States is a cancer, a dumping ground for the disfavored around the world and why the quality of life is so much lower::disturbing culture, gun violence, widespead social ills, health care issues (Pharmecuticals are designed EXCLUSIVELY to hurt the disfavored left behind by costing them a chance to ascend with their body, proof in the late (last 10 years) proliferation of pharmecutical advertizing on TV. You are sick/injured because you have disfavor.).
Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.
Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.
Bi-racial opens a new category, just as the Americans did when shipped out of their motherland::Bi-racial individuals are another inferior sub-class of peasant that are to get even less time than their grossly disfavored predicessors lucky enough to retain blood purity. Its emergence late (last 40 years) is a red flag suggesting its negative status. I want to remind older people about the stong stigma against bi-racial unions, a beneficial taboo handed down from our forefathers, one that faded to black as the 80s wore on.
The disfavored cast out to the United States did, in essence, become charter members of a new sub-class of citizen in the eyes of the gods, and as they began to mix they formed new sub-classes of people:::::
1st Class - Purebloods in their motherland
2nd Class - Disfavoreds cast out to the USA who retained their motherblood over the generations.
3rd Class - Disfavoreds sent to America who bred intra-continentally (bloodlines within the same continent)
4th Class - Disfavoreds banished to the United States who bred inter-continentally (bloodlines from different continents)
The effective difference could be in level of priveledge up there or perhaps the amount of time they intend on granting you::The lower the class the less time you get (They don't like to talk about how much time they are going to grant to people NOR about priveledge level.)
If you are a recent immigrant I recommend you return. (Just as with the Europeans a century ago, siblings who remained behind have the favor in your family.) If that's not possible you need to retain your culture and insulate your children and community from this cancerous environment. They send this clue with Chinatowns across the country, how many Chinese have been here for a century or more yet still retain the old ways, a sign of favor.

People came to the Unites States for many different reasons, and each has its own effect:::bondage, political strife, religious beliefs, crop failure (Ireland's potato famine, which of course the gods caused) and some left their beloved motherland because they were pushed into desiring a better life::::Greed, and these disfavored people were punished when the gods instructed AI to push them into becoming corrupted and preditory. They subsequently rewarded the corrupted Italians early this century so as to set the tone for the 20th century, the Age of the Disfavored, and used them to set an example for their own people and other disfavoreds within the United States. The gods sent this clue about "The Boot" (the Romans/Italians) again when European currencies merged:::::they ruined the value of the Lira prior to the merger, making the other countries foot this bill. Moral of the story::::The Italians are not to be trusted.
The gods used "The Boot" (Italy) twice::: Roman Empire and 20th century. Italians had certain priveledges for being positioned in charge, one is a lower incidence of homosexuality in the population.
Contrary to the perception, Italians have great disfavor, as do all inflicted with Catholicism:::I wonder if this was their punishment for the sins of the Roman Empire, the imperialism, the orgies???
Opera's sick themes were designed to corrupt the minds of the disfavored Italians. Once you recognize this I want to share that the Japanese also are grossly disfavored::they nearly produce distractions exclusively, their people are consumed by them, they have replaced their culture. What favor in Japan ocurrs rurally, and not near Nagasaki nor Hiroshima.
Wealth is a corruptor and a sign a society is disfavored::::Eastern Europe (socialism/communism) has favor while their western counterparts struggle in their relationship with the gods. Also baseball is a clue a society is grossly disfavored (Altanta Braves greatness of last 20 YEARS!!!! preditory on this very disfavored city and the nation as a whole, Braves baseball on cable TV DAILY!!!).
Cultures who embrace hard liquor as their drink of choice are grossly disfavored, tequilla being uniquely Mexican (Anything "hard" is wicked:::Hard alcohol, hard drugs, all porn.) or those who have a passion for drinking (Irish). Incidentally, another sign of gross disfavor are societies that consume spicy foods (Latin America, Thai, etc.), those who eat too much meat, engage in human sacrifice, ones who tattoo or pierce their bodies, those who celebrate evil (Celtic) or are inflicted with the Catholic Church. Contrary to what disfavored people believe, these peoples are not "earning" when they inflict their evil on others. Rather it is the source of their disfavor because the gods are scapegoatting them by hurting others with the problems the gods inflicted them with, ironically!!! Those who believe they are earning have become corrupted!!!
Disfavored people want to minimize the god's opportunities. These "open doors" give the gods the freedom to justify instructing Artificial Intelligence to create problems in the disfavored's lives. The USA, Catholic Church, hip-hop, etc all give the gods the freedom to abuse you and your family. Identify and eliminate as many of these items as you can.
The gods used "The Boot" twice, suggesting they are open to the idea of recycling:::Beem the structures and people off earth (into a star), beem out toxic waste and re-colonize the planet??? Planets require a investment and they may prefer to maximize its return.
They have many planets where they have fostered life. They have timed these planet's emergence (into industrial/technological age, the crucial in a planet's history,) to ensure they can give their full attention to each when it ocurrs.
They are personally involved, and are with each and every planet.

The gods will use whatever role players are at their disposal to justify their behavior to segments of society, 20th century gangsters used to position against the most disfavored among us, literally and telepathically::::The gods utilize levels of positioning. This is just another tactic the god's use to instill hurdles along the disfavored's path:::Whereas they used to take the many and leave the few now they take the few and leave the many.
There is an underlying positioning beneath this, as is the god's way:::Levels of positioning used to confuse the disfavored, to add a hurdle, and I suspect 20th century WorldWars are a clue suggesting germanic control (Hitler a clue suggesting Austrian leadership). Not only is their dominance of evil warmongering in the 20th century a clue but so is their language, a gutteral, wicked sounding langauge which is a clue offered to the disfavored. Similarly the purpose of their composers, many of whom were Austrian, ALL of whom were (brain-less?) clones (the favored children got out) was as a "high-level" distraction, a delaying tactic for those in that segment of society. Whereas this isn't as an important a tactic now it was back during the 20th century and earlier, I suspect. Austrian Sigmund Freud is known as the father of psychoanalysis yet people have (mental) health problems because of their disfavor, illustrating the preditory purpose of this discipline, this individual.
These people.
They fought to save Christianity in The Crusades. Do they have proprietory rights over beer, the scourge of men??? Buswdeiser IS Austrian. They suggest people crave this product. I know it's true. I've felt it myself and I don't even drink!!! It's because they are Austrian and the gods use Austrians as preditors.
(Much like US automakers, only one of these three companies is any good. You still shouldn't be drinking beer. And yes, it doesn't REALLY matter and yes, they are ALL merely clones, but just as the gods will enforce prophecy so will they enforce positioning. Plus because of the craving issue you are less apt to become an alcoholic drinking Coors than you are Buswieser.)
Martin Luther was a german and his teachings inspired the Reformation, good for the Germans and Christians throughout Europe. I wonder if Austrians would have tried to keep the Germans within the Church??
I argue the Austrians were used to lead the misled/unwitting Germans into evil.
Don't allow that Austrian, who has already been used to create so much damage throughout the decades (The gods instructed/forced this individual's (series of) clones to offer many clues, marrying a Kenndey is one.), into the White House. There won't be death camps but the gods will use this open door and exploit your mistake and punish you for failing to pick up on the clues listed above.
But I suspect the counsel/Management Team's use of positioning doesn't stop there. I suspect it may continue to "Earthly gods", perhaps with Egyptian Pharrohs, perhaps some Asian kings as leadership? Unlike "made guys" or VIPs, these individuals' reals may actually have a position within the Management Team for their status is very high. Their clone's role could suggest their real's importance:::::Of course their duties may not be Earthly due to bias.

If you ever have doubt I would refer you to the Old World way of life:::the elders used to sit and impart wisdom to the young. Now we watch DVDs and use the internet. People would be matched and married by age 14. They village would use a matchmaker or elders (all clones!!) to pair young people. Now girls give their precious virginity away to some person in school and parents divorce (AS TOLD!!!) while their children grow up without an important role model. The people used to honor the gods and were rewarded with a high-quality of life for them, their children and their society. Now we have a deteriorating society on a collision course with the Apocalypse.

The widespread emergence of innoculations was timed to coincide with other modern convieniences, setting the stage for the disturbing developments of the 20th century.
All the following are contributing factors justifing the deterioration of society, for the gods compensated for this easy living in other ways; the gods made people pay for the modern convieniences of today's society:::::
1. Indoor plumbing. People used to walk distances and return with heavy buckets full of water.
2. Freezer/refridgeration
3. Canned foods.
4. Mobility
5. Instantaneous communications
6. Freedom from pandemics through inocculations
I think the god's freedom to eliminate the descendants who had to pay for families or make widespread "corrections" (Black Plague) helped contribute to the decent society we enjoyed prior to the 20th century. Now those children live.
It's a contributing factor, justification for the deterioration of society which paves the way for The End.

There are many examples throughout 20th century life of how they instilled distractions into society so people wouldn't find the path and ascend, a way to justify excluding those whose family history makes them undesirable, dividing society into the haves and have-nots:::materialism, radio, sports, movies, popular music, television, video games, shopping. As we approached the end of the 20th century they accelerated their efforts:::the internet, the incredible increase in the stock markets, penny slot machines, etc, all deliberate attempts to ensure the disfavored are distracted/incurr evil (greed, justification for leaving the undesirable behind) and fail to make it up before this crucial date of 2000.
High pay to the disfavored today is a strategy::::It creates contentment/ability to distract self so people don't seek more, hesitant to receive contradicting possibilities, dependant on what they are told telepathically, subject to deception in a captive environment::the disfavored feel as if they are "in". It also opens the door for a materialistically-based lifestyle.
They gods (Counsel/Management Team/ruling species) have deteriorated life on earth precipitously in the last 40 years, from a godless society to abortion to pornography, widespread drug use and widespread casual (gay) sex, bi-racial children, explosion of "big" people, single-parent households, latchkey kids and the masculinization of women (and hence (full) women's prisons, participatory sports, etc. (Up until the past four decades it was the men who filled the prisons, the men who made trouble, the men who caused problems, and it's because theirs is the gender with disfavor and why the gods send them off to die in war. Too many men still sign on to the "good 'ole boy's club" paternalistic type of mentality, an archaic dumping ground now designated for the grossly disfavored, and it is used to compel them to feel superior to women when just the opposite is true.) Anything that emerged since the advent of television and "fast food" should be be distrusted by the disfavored and viewed as tools of the gods designed to attack us.
Anything that emerged since the advent of television and "fast food" should be be distrusted by the disfavored and viewed as tools of the gods designed to attack us.
Anything anything anything anything anything anything anything anything anything anything
Anything that emerged since the advent of television and "fast food" should be be distrusted by the disfavored and viewed as tools of the gods designed to attack us.
Women are favored, are the element of decency, and as they become more like the men the society becomes more disfavored, goes downhill, as we are witnessing.
There was a time, not so long ago, when no self-respecting woman would EVER set foot in a bar or a gambling hall. The only women who were in those type of establishments were of questionable morals, and there were far fewer of them than there are today.
Tabloids offer details on celebrities lives. Celebrities are ALL (brain-less) clones. They utilize tactics to minimize their legacy as illustrated above, and brain-less clones are one tactic, multiple clones for important events (noteworthy movies, spotlight sporting events, etc.) are another.
Every one of them are clones, and all these incidents are staged::The gods tell these clone celebrities to commit their offense and offer these tabloids as temptation to the ignorant public. Tabloids are tagetted specifically to women, and the gods offer this information to hurt them, for they incurr evil:::::::they are enjoying the misery of others which is not decent.
All these people are evil. I suspect their presence in their chosen profession is a statement regarding disfavor, legacy left from their real, prior life via reincarnation, etc.
And, much like all entertainers, sports, music, etc, they (their clone) wouldn't be doing what they do if they weren't evil. Their clones would be doing something good, something decent, something that didn't hurt people. The system is quite opposite from what it appears to be.

The Biblical account of Noah's flood was regional to the disfavored Mediterrean, peoples whom the gods scapegoatted when they pushed/disceived them into the evil that justified the flood, behavior similar to that which we are witnessing today. (Water levels lowered because of the ice age, habitation ocurred at seaside, land bridge at the Straight of Gibraltar "broke" through (New Orleans). Of course the gods desire maximum effect during these events so expect that they beemed in trillions of gallons into the Mediterreanean basin to enhance this event, especially in the east. Look for similar "effect-maximizing" behavior during future catastrophic events. (New Orleans))
Because they have leveled the playing field for all people (purebloods and mongrels) in the decades prior to the 21st century is a clue they will end globally this time (westernization, materialism, immigration/interracial, homosexual, access to disturbing media, desensitization, etc.)

The gods drew the disfavored out to California's gold rush with "magic", peaking them euphorically to achieve gold fever which is the same tactic they use to create addiction and homosexuality.
In time they molded the current disturbing enviornment into its present form, designed to prey on those disfavored's descendants (subsequently dispersed to California's SJValley or other disfavored areas of the country):::California led the social deterioration of the last 40 years as the gods escallated towards The End:::
-Free sex, Summer of Love
-Casual drug use
-Music scene
-Black Panthers
-Hollywood. Movies were terrible until they mysteriously changed in 196x sometime.
-Silicon Valley
-????
They implimented the deterioration of society over a century before it began in earnest.
Recall how California was the source of "progressive" ideas, gay acceptance/marriage, bi-racial acceptance, open immigration (see above), godlessness, individuality, and how these ideas were used to infect the rest of the country, the rest of the world.
Californians will be scapegoatted for The End, their "progressive" ideals used to perpetuate a "leveling of the playing field" worldwide. And don't be suprised if California (is the first to) subducts as punishment (pushed into behavior, scapegoat them then punish them, recurring policy of the gods)::: the North American plate sliding under the Pacific plate.

Because they have leveled the playing field for all people (purebloods and mongrels) in the decades prior to the 21st century is a clue they will end globally this time (westernization, materialism, immigration/interracial, homosexual, voyerism, pornography, access to disturbing media, desensitization, etc). They've engaged in a process where they have divided society into the haves and have nots.
The clues all suggest a very telling conclusion::this is Earth's end stage, and these clues suggest they will end on Earth. There are signs tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal (Earth's axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction.)::::::Much as Italy's boot and the United States shaped like a workhorse (with a fat ass) are geographic clues, so is the planet Uranus a clue, its axis rotated on its side.
Global warming should alarm people for it is a clue telling of the bleak future of Planet Earth.
The Bible says fire will be our demise this time. Both subduction and "beemed to the center of a star" fit this description:::::Don't think it will take as long as global warming suggests.
The gods used "The Boot" (Italy) twice, suggesting the gods are open to the idea of recycling::: Beem the structures and people off earth (into a star), beem out toxic waste and re-colonize the planet??? Planets require a investment and they may prefer to maximize their return.
Could they have already recycled earth before?

The Mayans as well as others were specific December 21, 2012 would be the end. How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???
How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???
How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???
The gods wrote prophecy in Revelation, had subsequent prophets foresee Earth's demise for good reason:::they are going to end on Planet Earth.
What else are they lying to you about? What else are they lying to you about?
What else are they lying to you about? What else are they lying to you about?
The gods wrote prohpecy for a reason:::They wrote prohpecy and conceived/implimented positioning because they intend on enforcing both. They didin't ivest the effort only to abandon their plans at a later date.
When people are saved at the end it will be the "haves", clones and clonesofclonesofclones in a theatrical display, not the disfavored people who have problems who were tempted into carrying on like they were "made guys", disceived into thinking they were "earning". Society has been divided into the haves and the have-nots, and it will be the haves who will be saved in the end, not the prono-driven, tattooed, pierced alternate freaks who get cornrows and grills because they are told they are being used to corrupt others or because they eat whatever the mdia feeds them.
It will (was) be some theatrical event, forcing some of these clones to come back, for I think many of them no longer resie on Earth. Of course they may be brain-less clones. If so they are just shells, slaves, robots and tools, the ultimate in disposability.
My message illustrating the path may be the disfavored's last clue. All clues before have been more covert but this one is quite obvious indeed, which says time is running out.

There are many ways they can play the deterioration of society as we move towards The End and you need to recognize it, for the door is open. I suspect the script is written, but the following is one idea they floated to me a couple of years ago::::
They may one day send a message, creating desperation among the disfavoreds:::
Have their clones shut down their corporations, stop their economic activity, be it farming, canning, power production, etc. and close up shop. This would leave the few disfavored companies (Atlanta) to fulfill the demand, unless they instruct them to pull out as well, for they ARE all brain-less clones, and this "good/evil company" issue is merely positioning.
They suggested they'd beem out all animals, be it livestock, etc., ensuring a heightened level of desperation. The resulting chaos would likley initiate the Apocalypse.
Disfavored people shouldn't be doing business with the favored.
Beem me up please.
(Atlanta is a very disfavored city and the gods instructed disfavored companies to locate there; Braves greatness of last 20 YEARS!!!! preditory on this very disfavored city. Baseball is a tool of the gods used to prey on the disfavored.
Atlanta's I-20 Racers - motocyclists speed down I-20 at speeds up to 250 mph to terrorize this disfavored city.
They threatened they would maintain a hurricane at category 5 even as far inland as Atlanta to destroy the city for the second time.)

Whereas Christopher Columbus marked the beginning of the end, the Holocaust marked the beginning of the final act, and it is a tragedy:::::
The gods fulfill the role of evil by preying on the disfavored and using Artificial Intelligence to push the disfavored into wickedness, leveling the playing field and paving the way for The End.
god is the Anti-Christ, if you put any credibility in this. The gods view it as a joke because Christianity is BY FAR the world's WORST major religion.
"god is the Anti-Christ" may never be revealed because of the levels of positioning. Perhaps they would put in some puppet, use some Italian or german to position this to the ignorant which allows the gods to come off clean, leaving a MAJOR hurdle for the disfavored to overcome somewhere down the road, for they are still thinking wrong. But the gods ARE the source of misery for the disfavored. They promote evil and tempt people, instructing Artificial Intellignece to push them or disceive them into wickedness.
god is the Anti-Christ.
Is god the Anti-Christ or, since (if) Jesus is evil in this environment of reverse positioning, is god a preditory Second Coming of Christ while the so-called Anti-Christ ironically is good, sympathethic to and trying to save the disfavored??? Is the Anti-Christ figure the opposite of the popular perception the gods created of the Anti-Christ as a wealthy white priveledged male who rises to power?
Christianity is BY FAR the world's WORST major religion, and the proof lies with disallusion the throngs of Christians experience once they learn this reality. The "final test" was most effective on Christians, for the gods are not good and loving. There is no such thing as a Christian god. The gods have quite a sophisticated taste for vengance and inflict disasterously on the innocent descendants (the population explosions of the last few centuries say something very disturbing.).
god is the Anti-Christ. They do it TO us. THE GODS PUSHED PEOPLE INTO BEING HOMOSEXUAL THEN MURDERED THEM WITH AIDS ENSURING REINCARNATION. This type of behavior is recurring.
They LOVE irony like this. It is the apex of their theater.
They LOVE to manage our lives, and they love the drama that results.
To be god fearing is a very healthy thing.

People must defy when asked to engage in evil. The Holocaust taught people the importance of defiance::our great grandparents should have defied when telepathically asked to ignore the Holocaust and instead reacted with outrage. I suspect some did::many were silenced while others were hustled off earth so as to not set an example. Now the gods have used that incident to justify punishing that generation's decendants by ruining society.
The gods imparted many other clues, another example being the incidents where women killed their children because they were told to. AT LEAST one child out of each family had to pay the price, and they will all stay less time than had they done it the right way and fixed their problems.
Would YOU murder your children if they asked?? They also ask some people to be gay. Would you live a homosexual lifestyle if they requested?? Would you schedule your sex change operation?
People will never get a easier clue suggesting the importance of defiance than the order not to pray. Their precious babies are dependant on the parents and they need to defy when asked to betray their children:::
-DON'T get your sons circumcized (Jews scapegoatted as per the clue sent in WWII (like justification, scapegoatting a recurring theme:::Scapegoatting as a matter of policy. I believe Jews were scattered around Europe as a clue to misled Christians like the Amish are a clue in the United States today; the gods used the Austrian-led germans to dispose of this clue.)
If you circumsized your sons it is a sign of gross disfavor and means you are being disceived. There are many levels of disfavor and the clues they offer to the unaware can be very subtle. Circumcision is NOT one of them.
-DON'T have their children baptized in the Catholic Church or indoctrinated into Christianity (Jesus is NOT a god. Jesus teaches us the right way to think, and it is a message is so elementary that it is good only for the disfavored dumped into "insensitive meathead" category.
The gods are not forgiving or begnign. They are vindictive and will punish you if you do something wrong.)
-DON'T ignore long hair or other behavioral disturbances.
-DO teach your children love, respect for others, humility and to honor the gods.
-DO teach your children about the power within the god's possession, if not directly then indirectly.
And when you refuse a request defy the right way, withdrawn and frightened, for you don't want to incite them by reacting inappropriately.

You need to pray, honor and respect them multiple times every day to improve your relationship with the gods. If they tell you not to pray it is a bad sign. It means they've made their decision, they don't want you to go and they don't want to reconsider. You may have achieved a threshold of evil. This is the Age of the Disfavored and you need to pray:::::Attone for the things you've done wrong. Try to appease the gods by doing good deeds and improve the world around you. Focus on becoming "Christ-like". Apply yourself to your children for I think this is the single best way for adults to try to redeem themselves in the eyes of the gods. Hopefully you can reearn enough favor to be allowed to pray. Otherwise you need to defy if you are to repair your relationship with the gods and give yourself a chance at significant time, not just a handful of decades.
Otherwise you need to defy if you are to repair your relationship with the gods and give yourself a chance at significant time, not just a handful of decades. Each individual has a relationship with the gods and you need to repair yours. Nobody is going to do it for you nor is anybody going to save you. This is not respectable and the gods do not respect it:::You must repair YOUR relationship with the gods yourself.
Some people prefer to view their relationship as if they were subjects who answer to royalty. If you are on Planet Earth then you are in trouble, you are either a memeber of a very disfavored blood line or they continually reincarnate you (population explosions of last 100 years suggests fresh new people). I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you view them AS GODS. They have the power of gods and they will live forever.

If you are a clone, if you have "seen", you more than anybody should honor the gods for you know their great power:::you have seen it firsthand. They share that they prefer most clones not pray and segment them like they do disfavoreds left behind, for it will limit the time they will receive, JUST LIKE THEY DO TO TYPICAL DISFAVOREDS!!! The gods deceive them to achieve this, for fresh clones are easily misled, setting them in the wrong direction and compelling these individuals into a pattern that excludes honoring their creator, limiting the time they are to receive. You need to discover your humanity, get out of that gear they put clones in and this will only happen though progress, continuing effort towards self-improvement.
When your peasant forefather was granted the rare opportunity to go before his royal family he went on his knees, bowing his head, humbled and frightened. You need to do this when you address the gods::bow down and submit to good. Never cast your eyes skyward. When you bow down you need to look within. Never look to the gods for you have the key to your own salvation. Remain silent and never address the gods directly for this is disrespectful. Practice patience and wait for them to address you:::never speak unless you are spoken to.
Nobody is going to do it for you. People need to save THEMSELVES by improving THEIR relationship with the gods. If you comply and don't pray you will get fifty years IF you go and then you will die, they will beem you to the center of a star. PLUS your level of priveledge will be much lower than had you repaired your relationship with the gods appropriately. Each one of us has a relationship with them and you need to fix your relationship with the gods. You need to SAVE YOURSELF by improving YOUR RELATIONSHIP with them.
SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF SAVE YOURSELF
IMPROVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM IMPROVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM IMPROVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM IMPROVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM
The gods mislead people into a delay mode::: "Somebody will fix your problems for you.", "The Second Coming of Christ will save everybody in the end.", "You have to "die out".". Only YOU can save YOU, and YOU KNOW IT, just as Mohammed's clone's followers KNOW polygamy is wrong::::: they know it as sure as they look at their daughters, as sure as they recall playing with their sisters as children, as sure as they remember basking in the love of their mothers.
It's wrong.
We all have a relationship with the gods. And you need to repair yours. The gods demand decency and respecability or you will be gone quickly. Take responsibility for your relationship with them and work to improve it.

Lack of humility hurts people, and the "empowering" environment that is the United States is an open door used to justify instructing Artificial Intelligence to amplify this problem. Understand your insignificance and make sure it is reflected in the way you think when addressing the gods. You are but a grain of sand on a vast beach, a drop in the ocean that is the universe. They are great and powerful and angry. Know your place, understand your inferiority and be afraid. They allowed (granted) you life and they can take it just as easily. (Immaculte conception IS true AND COMMON. Many people have children they don't know of:::gays, childless adults, etc. They can beem it right out of your body and use a host.)
You are not cool. Too many young men strive for cool and it hurts them, as does all things targetted to males (professional sports, video games, beer, pornography, vehicle racing, heavy metal rock, cursing, competitive or dangerous/risky career, etc. The women who enjoy any of these act

truth machine: Selmer is quite the character. I sort of gave up listening to him when I saw a video of him from a CAP conference asserting without any discussion an agent-causation viewpoint.

Russell: A nominalist? Really? Are you a practicing scientist? If so, what field?

(Yikes! That's one long post from "We don't want a bunch of Mexicans showing up at Temple.")

Oh my god, I can't believe that comment finally ended.

Keith: For a real hoot, read Bringsjord's "proof" that N = NP: http://kryten.mm.rpi.edu/scb_pnp_solved22.pdf

Aside from the lack of logic (somehow Selmer thinks that, because soap bubbles happen to produce what appear to be optimal solutions to a handful of Steiner Tree problems with small n, that one can necessarily find laws of physics such that soap bubbles provide optimal solutions to all Steiner Tree problems for all n), there's the astounding arrogance:

The Clay Mathematics Institute offers a $1 million prize for a solution to the P=?NP problem.
We look forward to receiving our award -- but concede that the expected format of a solution is
an object-level proof, not a meta-level argument like what we provide.

and

A reader asks:
"Some rather smart people continue to feverishly search for object-language level confirmation
of the received view that P!=NP. Do you seriously maintain that this work is otiose? What if
you woke up tomorrow to find that someone had established, at the object-language level, what
people generally expect: namely, P!=NP?"
If we received this information tomorrow, and the proof checked out, we would be faced with
an antinomy, since our argument certainly appears to be sound -- and the conclusion of a sound
argument comes no less highly recommended than the conclusion of a proof. Admittedly, this would
be an antinomy Bringsjord has imagined since the argument given above occurred to him, for the
simple reason that, intuitively, he is himself inclined to believe that P!=NP -- while on the other
hand, again, there stands the argument in question, and there really is no denying its power.

But what does Scott Aaronson say about this "power" in his excellent review article, NP-complete Problems and Physical Reality?

My immediate reaction was that the paper was a parody. However, a visit to Bringsjord's
home page suggested that it was not. Impelled, perhaps, by the same sort of curiosity that
causes people to watch reality TV shows, I checked the discussion of this paper on the comp.theory
newsgroup to see if anyone recognized the obvious error. And indeed, several posters pointed out
that, although soap bubbles might reach a minimum-energy configuration with a small number of
pegs, there is no "magical" reason why this should be true in general.

truth machine: Yikes. Penrose's noncomputable tiles again, after a fashion.

Wow. That's one way to kill a thread.

Post a huge comment of crazy and people get so freaked out they stay away.

What the hell was that about?

How do we know "anything"
when we can't "know" anything?

For a solution,

see "The Nature of Awareness" at www.anglingtek.com