Intelligent design in Oregon

oh my god!!! i know dr. long!!!

and yeah, i knew he was into that stuff, you see it in his office. i recall that years ago picking up organic tests :) he's a real great guy btw, aside from the christian stuff.

"Simmons said intelligent design supports the theories of natural selection and survival of the fittest, but neither of those theories proves evolution."

Is this new? Sounds like science to me.

"Billions of years isn't enough time," Simmons said. "Nobody has shown that a dog can become a cat."

A better statement may be "Nobody has shown that a worm can become a cat." Pass the collection plate. True, honest literature is in the back.

re: christian stuff, not that there's anything wrong with it. just saying that he isn't a fire-breathing wack or anything.

Long said that he does not include evolution in his curriculum; instead, he teaches that a creator designed the cell with impressive power and subtlety.

1) i've taken 2 classes from dr. long. he taught a term of organic, and he taught honors gen chem. nothing to do with biology really.

2) never would have known he was christian until i saw some stuff in his office.

he's a biochemist with a pharmacological background.

...archeologists claim monkey skulls they find are pre-human to get their pictures in magazines and make more money.

Awww, Crap! He's on to us! (Well, if you substitute paleoanthropologists for archaeologists) Darn, now I have to alert the anthropology section of the Darwinian Conspiracy that the scam has been discovered.

He also spoke about the recent court case, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, in which the judge decided that intelligent design was a religious theory that has no place in public school classrooms. Alderman said the lawyers did not handle the case well and that the loss set back the movement by years.

That was a bit of a backfire. Time to drag those poor old goal-posts once again. Let's call it 'science based criticisms' *wink wink*.

"It's gonna be very difficult to use the courts," Alderman, who is a Christian, said. "The argument needs to be won in the universities."

How? Surely not by actually doing science, since they haven't done any yet, and have no theory from which to even start. "C'mon...it REALLY REALLY looks designed" doesn't even get past the 'Kent Hovind' setting on the science Crap-o-Meter.

"I'm confident that Genesis is true," he said. "God's deity and power are revealed in the cosmos."

"It sounds like the God from the Bible," he said.

But as always kids...intelligent design is a purely secular scientific theory with absolutely nothing to do with religion.

He may not be a wacko but there is little excuse for someone who is a college professor of chemistry who should know better endorsing this type of .. well crap.

"Billions of years isn't enough time," Simmons said. "Nobody has shown that a dog can become a cat."

Granted he did not say it but he's sitting on the panel discussing ID with these people.

I'm sure he's a good person and likable but its really intellectually dishonest to support that kind of logic or rather lack there of.

Why??? WHy??? WHY??? Tara- please don't stop fighting this. The battle doesn't belong in the courts but the univerities??? Can anyone say New Dark Ages???? We fund prayer studies at the expense of real studies, Orac writes about the home schooled creationist med student, people believe in stupidity like "the Poo Lady" Gillian McKeith and now this??? (Sorry, the poo lady was on my mind as I came across her show last night and her scientific methods of discerning malnutrition left a lot to be desired.) What is the solution? How do people who actually care make sure their kids are getting a decent science education with no ID crap thrown in? And ad infinitum again with the questions. These peope frighten me with their passion and sincerity. I cannot believe that this is written up and taken seriously.

Where to begin in fixing science education?

I did something of a logical fisk of it on my blog.

As long as science is taught to kids as a bunch of facts to be memorized, like history or times tables, it's going to be hard for them to see how science is any different from the Bible.

impatientpatient wrote:

The battle doesn't belong in the courts but the univerities???

Sounds good to me. That is a good forum to evaluate the scientific merits (hah) of ID. Many universities will also have departments that can debate the merits of the philosophy and theology (crap all around). Probably not going to happen though; we'll probably just see more cargo-cult science. (And philosophy for that matter. Scientists don't believe humans have free will? How many care? To the philosophy department with you Alderman, and stop by sociology on your way to find out what scientists actually believe.)

Tara - I'm really glad you are helping to keep this front and center. Scientists need to be proactive. Thankfully, these three chuckle-heads (hat tip to False Authority!) are right about one thing: the Kitzmiller case did deal them a severe setback. Hopefully enough to drive a stake through the heart of this particular attack on empiricism.

Unfortunately I have little faith in a lot of things. One being the power of money to skewer truth. Imagine that a ID proponent with lots of money bequeaths a big fortune to the University of his choice to propogate ID/Creationism as a fact. I have no hope that eventually this will not happen, and that the university in question will not take the money and run... The University of ALberta Stollery Childrens Hospital has a Complementaty and Altyernative medicine program now, and is also affiliated with The Hope Foundation of Alberta- a place that is so bullsh*t I can smell it where I live. Puleeze, don't think that this is not a worst case scenario that will not happen. "Truth" these days is sold to the highest bidder. Cynical, pissed and really really angry.............

BTW- my former religious private school that gave me NO backing in real science is now getting money from our government to run its school. How much do you want to bet that evolution is taught as JUST a theory and ID is taught as truth? Maybe I should phone them, pose as a prospective parent, tape the conversation and post it?? Maybe I could wax eloquently about how I remember with fondness the heroes that came in as guest speakers and taught us how the world really was only a few thousand years old. I can't EVER get those hours of my life back....