Tomorrow, antivaxers march on Washington, and, boy, are they excited!

About five weeks ago, I took notice of an event that seems to be getting the antivaccine crankosphere a bit riled up and excited. I'm referring to the so-called "Revolution for Truth" march on Washington being organized by various antivaccine groups, who, emboldened by President Donald Trump's long, sordid history of expressing antivaccine views, his meeting with antivaccine agitator Andrew Wakefield in secret in August, and his meeting with antivaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in January, really believe that now is their moment and that 2017 will be the antivaccine year. Thanks to, among others, Donald Trump, vaccine policy, which used to be a bastion of bipartisanship, is becoming dangerously politicized, with antivaccine conspiracy theories getting darker and darker. Given that this antivaccine march on Washington will take place tomorrow, I was curious to see what its proponents have been up to as the day nears.

On Sunday, this appeared on the Revolution for Truth Facebook page:

Not surprisingly, the first thing they want their demonstrators (and those who can't go) to do is to contact the White House and say:

Vaccine injuries are real and devastating. One in 68 children (1 in 42 boys) now has autism. Autism should be declared a national emergency and a higher priority. I support an independent vaccine commission.

This is, of course, typical antivaccine misinformation. Notice the implication that all of this autism is caused by vaccines, when the science is very clear that it is not. I also note that this "independent" vaccine commission that antivaxers want would not truly be "independent. When they say "independent," they mean a commission run by one of their own, like Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., which could call CDC and FDA witnesses to harass them with questions about vaccines and autism based in pseudoscience. The reason they're excited about an "independent vaccine commission" is because, after his meeting with then President-Elect Trump, RFK Jr, being RFK Jr., couldn't help but blab that the then Trump had asked him to chair just such a commission. Hilariously, the transition team quickly slapped him down, saying that no such offer had been made. Unfortunately, damage was done. It was bad enough that Trump would have met with such a die-hard antivaccine crank as RFK Jr. about vaccines and autism, no matter what the reason, and the possibility that Trump might have offered RFK Jr. the chair of an antivaccine commission with the imprimatur of the President on it was an excellent way to undermine confidence in vaccines.

Next up, Revolution for Truth wants antivaxers to contact their Senators and Congressional Representatives to demand that they subpoena CDC scientist William Thompson, a.k.a. the "CDC whistleblower" (at least since 2014, anyway). Thompson, of course, is a rather bitter, clueless man who appears to have had a falling out with his co-authors on one of the seminal papers looking for a correlation between MMR and autism—it didn't find one—because he believed that the way the report was written up was not sufficiently transparent about how it corrected for confounders in a subgroup where the study found an apparently elevated risk of autism associated with MMR vaccination. The story is too long to go into in much detail, but suffice to say that the association was almost certainly spurious, as it went away with more controls. Thompson apparently nursed a grudge for nearly a decade and, for whatever reason, decided to start unloading on and confiding in Brian Hooker, a biochemical engineer turned antivaxer and incompetent epidemiologist, providing him with the original data to mangle with a "reanalysis" so epically incompetent that a brand new journal actually retracted the paper.

Unfortunately for poor, clueless Dr. Thompson, Hooker recorded their conversations without his knowledge. Even more unfortunately for Thompson, somehow Andrew Wakefield got wind of the existence of those recordings, obtained them from Hooker, and then made a video featuring cherry picked quotes by Thompson venting to Hooker. Basically, the whole thing is, when objectively examined, a big nothingburger. However, because it confirms in antivaxers' fragile eggshell minds the central conspiracy theory of the antivaccine movement, namely that there's evidence that vaccines cause autism that is being "covered up" by The Man, the "CDC whistleblower" conspiracy theory had legs. (Not surprisingly, Thompson's silence since lawyering up two and a half years ago only contributes to the conspiracy theory, with some antivaxers believing that The Man has gotten to Thompson.) While it was fascinating to watch close-up the birth of a new conspiracy theory, dealing with it has become a major headache for pro-science advocates because antivaxers have basically gone wild on social media over it and used it as a rallying point. Meanwhile, Andrew Wakefield and Del Bigtree have made an antivaccine propaganda movie, VAXXED, that has become a rallying point. Not surprisingly, a large part of the movie is about the "CDC whistleblower."

Since the last time I took note of this attempt to party like it's 2008, which was the last time there was an "major" antivaccine march on Washington; i.e., the "Green Our Vaccines" march, led by Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey. Only this time around, the cast of characters is different. Scheduled to speak at "Revolution for Truth" are: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Barbara Loe Fisher, Minister Tony Muhammad, Del Bigtree, Brian Hooker, PhD, Paul Thomas, MD, Judy Mikovits, PhD, Toni Bark, MD, Marcella Piper-Terry, Kent Heckenlively, Diane Hennacy Powell, MD, Sheila Lewis Ealey, Jennifer Margulis, PhD, Zen Honeycutt, Robert Moxley, Tami Canal, Sherrie Saunders, Jim Turner, and Alexis Baden-Meyer. We've met some of them before, but others we have not. For instance, I had never heard of Alexis Baden-Meyer before, but apparently her primary gig is anti-GMO, if her TruthOut page is any indication. That's not surprising, as anti-GMO and antivaccine go together like pizza and beer. Of course, in this case the beer and pizza are both crappy. Maybe I should say they go together like cat poop and a litter box. Robert Moxley, on the other hand, appears to be a criminal defense attorney in Wyoming (!) who also does civil litigation regarding—you guessed it!—"vaccine injury." Sherrie Saunders was a medic in the Army who has now gone antivaccine over her having given anthrax vaccine to soldiers and now thinks that the Gulf War syndrome is—surprise! surprise!—an adverse reaction to the anthrax vaccine due to "animal protein" in the vaccine. Not surprisingly, she's been interviewed by the VAXXED crew.

Not surprisingly, excitable fellow that he is, Kent Heckenlively is all fired up to go to the rally. Oddly enough, he's already provided his intended remarks, which to me would mean that his speech would be the perfect time for a bathroom or coffee break. He's also provided it in all caps, which is even more appropriate. I thought about typing out the excerpt I'm going to provide, because all caps bother me, but then I decided just to copy and paste because (1) all caps is very appropriate for anything Heckenlively writes; (2) I'm lazy; and (3) I was up late last night doing emergency surgery and don't have a lot of time before I have to leave for work. Get a taste of what attendees will be hearing:

IT WAS A BIT OF A SURPRISE TO FIND THAT THE SAME VILLAINS WHO HAD BEEN RESISTING AN HONEST INVESTIGATION INTO CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME CALLED FOR BY DR. MIKOVITS, WERE THE ONES I HAD KNOWN FOR YEARS WERE RESISTING AN HONEST INVESTIGATION INTO AUTISM CALLED FOR BY DR. ANDY WAKEFIELD.

THAT’S WHY I WROTE THE BOOK, INOCULATED: HOW SCIENCE LOST ITS SOUL IN AUTISM, TO GIVE A BEHIND THE SCENES ACCOUNT OF NOT JUST WHISTLE-BLOWER, DR. WILLIAM THOMPSON’S CLAIM OF CORRUPTION AT THE CDC REGARDING VACCINES AND AUTISM, BUT TO GIVE A WIDER VIEW OF THE AMAZING CAST OF AVENGERS WHO ARE FIGHTING THIS ENORMOUS EVIL. I WANTED TO FOCUS ON DR. BRIAN HOOKER, WHO BEFRIENDED THE WHISTLE-BLOWER, AND IS A LIVING EXAMPLE OF HIS CHRISTIAN FAITH IN HOW HE LOVED THE SINNER WHO WAS DR. WILLIAM THOMPSON, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME HE HATED THE SIN. I WANTED TO HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF SPACE DEVOTED TO DR. ANDY WAKEFIELD, WHO HAS SUFFERED SO GRATLY, BUT TO WHOM WE ALL OWE SO MUCH.

A GREAT DEBT IS OWED TO ROBERT KENNEDY, JR., WHO COULD HAVE HAD A QUIET, PEACEFUL LIFE, TRYING TO GET MERCURY OUT OF FISH, BUT INSTEAD CHOSE TO TRY AND GET MERCURY OUT OF OUR KIDS, AND CALLED DOWN THE WRATH OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES ON HIS HEAD. AND I WANTED TO WELCOME NEW RECRUITS TO THE FOLD, LIKE MINISTER TONY MUHAMMAD FROM THE NATION OF ISLAM, A TRUE WARRIOR AND LION OF THE LORD.

YOU SEE, IT IS NOT SCIENCE WHICH OPPOSES US. IT IS A FEW EVIL AND TWISTED SCIENTISTS WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT SCIENCE IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE LIFE OF HUMANITY BETTER, NOT LINE THE POCKETS OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

HONEST SCIENCE, SCIENCE WHICH IS IN ACCORD WITH THE PRINICPLES OF HUMANITY, WANTS TO ALLEVIATE SUFFERING. THAT IS THE KIND OF FIRECE DEVOTION I FOUND IN DR. JUDY MIKOVITS. IT IS THE SAME KIND OF DEVOTION WHICH DRIVES DR. ANDY WAKEFIELD. I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER SCIENTISTS OUT THERE WHO CAN YET REDISCOVER THE BETTER ANGELS OF THEIR NATURE AND JOIN OUR CAUSE.

AND SO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS, I BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE CAN GIVE US THE ANSWERS AS TO HOW TO RESCUE OUR LOST CHILDREN. I THINK OF MY OWN DAUGHTER, JACQUELINE, EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD, WITH WHOM I HAVE NEVER HAD A CONVERSATION. I RAISE MY VOICE AGAINST SOME OF THE GREATEST POWERS IN THE LAND BECAUSE IN DOING SO I HOPE MY EFFORTS WILL ONE DAY HELP HER FIND HER VOICE. IF THAT MAKES ME AN OUTLAW, IF IT MAKES FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS TURN AWAY FROM ME, IF IT MAKES ME A NON-PERSON IN THE EYES OF THE MEDIA, IF IT MAKES ME A DEPLORABLE, SO BE IT. I WILL WEAR THAT NAME AS A BADGE OF HONOR.

THIS IS A GREAT CAUSE IN WHICH WE FIGHT, PERHAPS THE GREATEST OF OUR TIME. WE FIGHT FOR NOTHING LESS THAN THE SURVIVAL OF HUMANITY.

The "greatest" fight of our time? A fight for "nothing less than the survival of humanity"? It's just "evil and twisted" scientists who oppose us? (What's next? Dr. Evil cackling and brandishing a syringe?) I'll give Heckenlively credit. He sure does know how to exaggerate beyond all reality. I suppose that's to be expected from someone who likes to fancy himself as the Aragorn facing down the Dark Lord Sauron's hordes, even though his forces are hopelessly outnumbered, in the fantasy novel and movie The Lord of the Rings. It also fits with the overall tone of the march, which conflates "freedom" with the the ability to leave children unprotected against deadly diseases just because the marchers believe against all evidence that vaccines cause autism.

Meanwhile, Marco Cáceres, declaring the march as one of "few causes more fundamental," is quick to lower expectations:

The Mar. 31 rally will not involve the big numbers that have been seen at more recent rallies on Capitol Hill but it would be a mistake to misinterpret that fact as truly reflective of the size of the ever increasing numbers of Americans who are becoming enlightened about environmental risks to their health. It is worth noting that a significant number of people who would otherwise be at the event will be at home caring for children and other relatives who have been sickened or injured by the toxins in our environment, foods, and pharmaceutical products.

Anyone who remembers the "Green Our Vaccine" rally knows that it attracted, at most, a few hundred people. The "Revolution for Truth" rally might attract a bit more, given that Donald Trump is in office, but it won't be particularly big, either. That's because, even in the age of Donald Trump, the antivaccine movement remains a pathetic group of cranks. Unfortunately, the amount of mischief and harm it causes belies its size.

And then there's this, from an email on the Revolution for Truth organizing list:

Its going to be raining on Friday 3/31/2017!

As a result of the storm that is expected in Washington D.C. on Friday afternoon, we had to select a new venue for our Rally. Please plan accordingly for possible inclement weather in the morning. We will still meet at Lafayette Park at 9am to march to the Press Club starting at 9:30am.

After the protest at the Press Club, please plan to be at the JW Marriott in plenty of time for the 1:00pm start time to hear the incredible leaders who are joining forces to defend Health Freedom in America!

The current weather forecast appears to show a 90+% chance of rain, along with a thunderstorm. One hates to fall victim to the trap of anthropomorphizing the weather and ascribing causation to correlation, but it's nonetheless tempting to think that Mother Nature is trying to tell these cranks something. On the other hand, I have to be careful. Saying something like this only feeds their twisted sense of self-importance. 

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I just read the rest of Heckenlively's rant, in which he seems to compare himself to Nelson Mandela. It's comedy gold.

By Rebecca Fisher (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I remain impressed by the eagerness with which the antivaxxers welcome Judy Mikovits to their collective bosom, in that she only took up the cause when she needed a new grift (after losing her previous XMRV scam for faking results too transparently).

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I'm thinking of the protest against Microsoft, several years ago. As you know, Bill and Melinda Gates are huge supporters of vaccination, so antivaxxers decided to picket Microsoft.
Eighteen people showed up.
Not eighteen thousand, not eighteen hundred, eighteen.

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Interestingly enough, I emailed Marco Cáceres because of some problems I saw with his piece on herd immunity. Needless to say, he has not responded and my comment on his blog is still "awaiting moderation". I guess he is too busy organising?

By Anders Gustafsson (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Well, rain also wrecked a planned "witches' hex" demonstration against Trump, so it seems Mother Nature is a capricious sort.

Their Facebook event page has several hundreds marked as "going", so I would also expect the turnout will not match expectations.

They appear to have rented the National Press Club again, as anyone can, and a few anti vaccine activists, including Dr. Toni Bark and Jennifer Margulis, appear scheduled to talk there before hand about the risks of vaccines. I wonder if we silll hear anything new.

Oh, and here is a response by a former military woman to Ms. Saunders' claims. Unsurprisingly, that video, too, is not reliable.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vaxfencesitter.org/2016/10/29/vaxxed-tall-…

By Dorit Reiss (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

The current weather forecast appears to show a 90+% chance of rain, along with a thunderstorm. One hates to fall victim to the trap of anthropomorphizing the weather and ascribing causation to correlation, but it’s nonetheless tempting to think that Mother Nature is trying to tell these cranks something.

Sometimes called called the ' Pathetic Fallacy', I find it particularly satisfying on this occasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic_fallacy?wprov=sfsi1

By Badly Shaved Monkey (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Badly Shaved MonkeY!!!

I blame my iPhone and my thick thumb

By Badly Shaved Monkey (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

HONEST

You keep using that word, Mr. Heckenlively. I don't think it means what you think it means.

In particular, "honest science" does not mean "science that agrees with my preconceived notions," as Mr. Heckenlively seems to think. Quite the opposite: honest scientists go to great lengths to make sure they are not fooling themselves. It's much easier to fool yourself than to fool other people.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I suppose we should be grateful that Kent Heckenlively's speech/rant comes off as so unhinged and self-serving (what with references to "villains" and "evil", and promoting his book). That sort of thing plays well with hardcore antivaxers, but not so much with the news media and sane elements in Congress.* Kent himself recognizes this, but doesn't care. "IF IT MAKES ME A NON-PERSON IN THE EYES OF THE MEDIA, IF IT MAKES ME A DEPLORABLE, SO BE IT."

Sorry Kent, impressing the Donald won't be quite enough to reverse vaccine policies.

*who might also be a tad uneasy about lining up behind the Nation of Islam.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Sherrie Saunders was a medic in the Army who has now gone antivaccine over her having given anthrax vaccine to soldiers and now thinks that the Gulf War syndrome is—surprise! surprise!—an adverse reaction to the anthrax vaccine due to “animal protein” in the vaccine.

You gotta love all these competing hypotheses regarding what illnesses are caused by vaccines. Here I thought Gulf War Syndrome was caused by aluminium (per Christopher Shaw).

By Science Mom (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

@3 Julian
Great. Now I feel dirty for being forced to tangentially agree with something the loons have come up with. MS should be boycotted for a number of reasons. Their reason isn't one of them, but MS and Bill Gates should pay for the evil it has inflicted on the world, and how far back they had set computing.

With any luck, this thunder storm will hit their audio system and short it out. If a loon babbles in the mall and no-one can hear it, was there really wasted oxygen?

By Anonymous Pseudonym (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Does anyone know who is actually behind this? I noted weeks ago that the Revolution4TRUTH website didn't have an "About Us" page and only listed a few, lame anti-vaccine clubs as supporters. Even on their "Donations" page you can't find out who you are donating to. They may be sending a check to Charlie Manson in his cell for all they know.
Yes, I'm aware that all these anti-vaccine clubs are all run by the same small group of grifters who create new "Organizations", with membership = 4, whenever the need arises.
But, who is actually the person behind this? Who thought it up? Who is running it? Who is the head honcho(s)? Who gets the "donations"?
Anybody know?

I'll also note that missing from their pathetic list of speakers is one Andrew Wakefield.
It seems that it has finally dawned on them that Wakefraud is box office poison outside their cloistered little anti-vax bubble. He's very good at rousing the party faithful and picking their pockets but in the outside world he is considered the Bernie Madoff of science and medical fraud. Well... there was probably an important UFO conspiracy convention this weekend that he and Polly had to attend.

This does seem to be more geared to the True Believers™ since most of the speakers are so obscure that they will be known only to those who dwell in the anti-vaccine cult's info-bubble.

Wakefield is in Ireland, I think, I'm a planned but apparently not very successful effort to export Vaxxed there.

But of course, these plans could have beenade differently if they really wanted him in the rally.

He also wasn't at Kennedy's and De Niro's press conference, now that you mention it.

By Dorit Reiss (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Travis Schwochert must be up early (for him) this morning, impersonating a Royal Rife kook!

Fucklesworth = Travis J. Schwochert back as uberkook leon maliniak

Besides an incredible array of well-done studies showing NO link between vaccines and autism, the 1 in 68 is autism spectrum disorders, not "classical" autism. For instance, Asperger's was added in 1994 to DSM IV and, obviously increased the numbers, though DSM V has changed the categories. Change the included categories, change the criteria, etc. and the numbers will change.

Age of Autism is now announcing a seven-part video series "Truth About Vaccines" to start April 12 (http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/03/the-greatest-health-debate-of-the-21… ). You should get lots of mileage from it.

As for GMOs. I have NO problem with GMOs in general. I am aware of the history of how corn came about, my dog, etc. But these involved splicing and dicing a clumsy group of genes from like/similar species. All that GMOs do is to pick the specific genes sought, so, for instance, they could create German Shepherds without hip displasias, that is, only using the desired genes. However, using xenogenes that would NEVER in a million years have entered into some species is more questionable. I refer to Bacillus thuringiensis toxin used in certain agricultural products. The so-called safety tests for these were short term, mainly on rats. As you know, DES used by mothers caused cervical cancers 20 years later in their daughters. And there are some studies indicating that BT may not be as safe as claimed. However, once in environment, it is there for a long time. I believe in the precautionary principle, that is, before releasing something into the environment that reasonable studies of safety are done. According to my reading, this is not the case with BT. In addition, insects are already showing resistance to it, so it will remain in the environment and insects will mutate around it. I am NOT asking for absolute proof of anything; but short term studies of GMOs with xenogene are unsatisfactory.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

The real leon maliniak ( found here) was actually good for a chuckle or three, unlike the tedious Travis J. Schwochert.

I'll give Travis this: he has made numerous attempts at relatively original argument, unlike the exceedingly tedious grinning idiot.

If William Thompson has gone silent then maybe they should subpoena him and make him talk under the oath.

@Anonymous Pseudonym, I agree with you re: Microsoft. I bought my current laptop at the start of 2015. I feel that I should have installed Linux Ubuntu on it the moment I got it.

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I suppose we should be grateful that Kent Heckenlively’s speech/rant comes off as so unhinged and self-serving (what with references to “villains” and “evil”, and promoting his book).

Not to mention the ALL CAPS. Internet tradition holds that, unless you are on such an old keyboard that you can't use lower case characters, that constitutes shouting. And I'm not sure there are any such keyboards still in use in the US--even the National Weather Service no longer issues bulletins in ALL CAPS, and they were one of the last holdouts for this very reason.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

They may be sending a check to Charlie Manson in his cell for all they know.

The Paypal donations go to the "Vaccine-Injury Awareness League," as do those from v-ial.org, which claims 501(c)(3) status. That coughs up EIN 47-3018845, in Culver City, California. Looks to be Michelle Maher Ford.

I haven't found any Forms 990, but I'm still on my first pot of coffee.

Mother Nature is trying to tell these cranks something.

Maybe it will rain so much, they'll have to postpone their march for 24 hours, Mom Nat thus pushing it to the day on which it belongs.

even the National Weather Service no longer issues bulletins in ALL CAPS

Even the RTTY broadcasts?

#12 Dorit - Thanks. It's too bad they seem to be marginalizing Wakefraud as I was taking great pleasure in seeing the anti-vaccine cult completely co-opted and taken over as nothing more than an advertising arm for Wakefraud's video - Vaxxed.
It was hilarious to see all the drones mindlessly posting messages that were essentially ads for Wakefraud & Co's product at the expense of all the other anti-vaccine clubs. I imagine those club's incomes dropped while Wakefield & Co. are busy relentlessly picking the pockets of the faithful - "Please buy 10 tickets even if you don't plan on attending just to "line Andy's pockets" "stick it to The Man."
Hopefully the media recognizes this for what it is and ignores it.
.
.
#19 Narad - Thank you, too. Interesting. I look forward to anything you can find out about these scammers. Who the hell is Michelle Maher Ford? Why would anyone send money to a stranger who could be the crazy cat lady down the street?
It seems the way to make it through life is to attach yourself to an alt group and then create a 501(c)(3) org. with you and a few friends as officers and then beg for money on teh internets.
I'm surprised loons like Judy Mikovits haven't formed their own orgs to pick the pockets of the faithful.
Grifters gotta' grift.

Well, they do have Del Bigtree speaking, so there will be representation for the Vaxxed team. I think they now split up to do things.

By Dorit Reiss (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Reality (not verified)

True that. The VAXXED crew is represented.

I suppose there's something ironic about being an antivaccine insurance broker, particularly given that Obananacare is the thin edge of the wedge for forced vaccination.

Silly me, I forgot to check Pattimmy's joint, which is apparently no longer a one-"man" operation. Get this:

One of the important activities social activists involved in the anti-vaccine movement have achieved is the outright elimination of racial strife.

I like the Doors reference.

By Silentbob (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Whether or not Thompson gave Hooker data, Hooker's now retracted reanalysis says under the methods section:
Cohort data were obtained directly as a “restricted access data set” from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) via a Data Use Agreement. Data were deidentified by the CDC in accordance with Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) prior to receipt by the study authors.
I always point this out to anti-vaxxers who claim the CDC destroyed the data purported to show a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

By Jesus baby (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

They may be sending a check to Charlie Manson in his cell for all they know.

That would be preferable. After all, he killed fewer people.

A GREAT DEBT IS OWED TO ROBERT KENNEDY, JR., WHO COULD HAVE HAD A QUIET, PEACEFUL LIFE, TRYING TO GET MERCURY OUT OF FISH

Given his obvious level of scientific competence, I expect he'd also be trying to extract sunlight from cucumbers.

By Rich Woods (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Surprised no one has noticed the appeal to authority in the Revolution for Truth. There is the obvious "tea party" reference by citing the man who is famous for "I cannot tell a lie" when he cut down a tree that did not exisit in the colonies, , George Washington was pro variolation. He was criticized for assuring that the regular army was innoculated from small pox during the blockade of Boston.

By Robert Blew (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Another observation. Why is it that Pseudoscience finds it so easy to organize a march, while science seems to have difficulties with that https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/22/science-march/. There are advantages to ignoring validity, verification, considering other views.

By Robert Blew (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

If William Thompson has gone silent then maybe they should subpoena him and make him talk under the oath.

Who are "they," what authority do they have to issue subpoenas, and where are "they" going to have Thompson testify?

By shay simmons (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Heckenlively is absolutely right: this is a fight for the survival of humanity. Now more the ever, considering the development of vaccines designed to alter human DNA, along with the increasingly escalating vaccine schedule.

Seems like there is a constant a pro-vax/anti-vax round-robin, designed to control the vaccine opposition. E.g., focusing on autism as the main concern, when it's actually just the tip of the iceberg. Dr. Thompson is a limited hangout. Even if a congressional hearing is eventually forced by public pressure, it'll just be a whitewash.

The "safer vaccine" idea operates to control the opposition. It diverts attention from the fundamentally flawed and fraudulent foundation of the entire vaccine paradigm--which is not about keeping people healthy at all. Not that the typical doctor realizes that--they have a lifetime of indoctrination in vaccine psyence, just like everyone else. But at some point, willful blindness surely becomes impossible. Maybe that's one reason doctors have such a high suicide rate.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink
They may be sending a check to Charlie Manson in his cell for all they know.

That would be preferable. After all, he killed fewer people.

<pedantry>That would be none, at least that are known; he stayed home for the murders.</pedantry>

Being South African, Mr Heckenlively’s comparison of himself to Madeba (ie. Nelson Mandela) is complete and utter gardge. These anti-vaxxer's inflated opinions of themselves is beyond all realms of reality. Another Nelson Mandela my FOOT!

OOPs this should read:-

Being a South African myself, Mr Heckenlively’s comparison of himself to Madeba (ie. Nelson Mandela) is complete and utter gardge. These anti-vaxxer’s inflated opinions of themselves is beyond all realms of reality. Another Nelson Mandela my FOOT!

NWO Troll: "Heckenlively is absolutely right: this is a fight for the survival of humanity."

More ironic hilarity from the fool that thinks that children should continue to suffer up to two weeks dealing with itchy open wounds because she can't be bothered to get a shingles vaccine. I am pretty positive she is older than 24 years old, and actually had chicken pox, so is a candidate for shingles. So like a ghoul she encourages parents to let their kids actually get sick.

My youngest got the actual disease when she was six months old in 1994. The vaccine was introduced in the USA in 1995.

...the fundamentally flawed and fraudulent foundation of the entire vaccine paradigm–

We await with bated breath stories of your idyllic days home from school with smallpox, diphtheria, tetanus, and rabies, which were no big deal and left you with a stronger immune system....

By The Very Rever… (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

NWO @39: " the development of vaccines designed to alter human DNA"

What vaccine is that? I am not familiar with a vaccine to alter human DNA. Can you please be more specific?

By JustaTech (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I once read a book about a B&B with a hole to hell int he basement. The hole talked to itself, and all its dialog was presented in BLOCK CAPS.

I'm not saying that Mr Heckenlively is a portal to the infernal pit, but there is a certain similarity.

By JustaTech (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

NWO Reporter (#39) writes,

Heckenlively is absolutely right: this is a fight for the survival of humanity.

MJD says,

I'm cozy with a vaccine if it states, "not manufactured with natural rubber latex".

Small steps NWO Reporter, small steps...

By Michael J. Dochniak (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Kent's imagination of who he might be knows no bounds. He has previously imagined himself as a a fictional character from a 1950s book series. Imagining himself as Nelson Mandela is probably no different.

I wonder if publishing in the BolenReport is a new low for Kent.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Ian @48: See, this is why I was confused by NWO's statement. Are they talking about a DNA-based vaccine (where the DNA is the thing you're injecting) or genetic engineering using a viral vector?

So, nope, haven't got any papers like that at all. I think it's been done experimentally, for genetic engineering, but that's way outside my area of expertise. (When you say nuclear DNA do you mean of any given cell, or of the germ line?)

By JustaTech (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Currently there are no DNA vaccines licensed in the western world for humans. The most promising first cab off the rank for a Zika virus is likely to be an inactivated virus.

There is a DNA vaccine licensed for use in animals. The way it works is that genes for specific viral external proteins are placed on a plasmid that is then injected into muscle. The plasmid genes are expressed within the cell and the proteins produced are transported to the muscle cell membrane where they induce the antibody response. The DNA in the plasmid is not incorporated into the host nuclear DNA.

There are quite a few advantages of this approach to vaccination. There is less material required per vaccination, the antigen presentation is slower to develop and last for longer, decreasing the need for boosters. DNA is much easier to transport and look after than protein-based vaccines.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

You guys are overthinking it. When a mindless idiot like NWO-troll blathers about "altering your DNA". DNA is just a buzzword gleaned from newspapers. They don't know DNA from DRM. All they (think they) know is that vaccines are injected "directly into your bloodstream", that this pollutes your precious bodily fluids, that your blood is the same as your "bloodline", and that "polluting" it will harm future generations.

The fact that literally every detail of this is laughably untrue matters not to them. Purity of Essence™ is everything.

By The Very Rever… (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

I agree with The Rev'. Their complaints are far more likely to be about precious bodily fluids. This foreign DNA bit comes up frequently and any time I've seen it, it has always been about odd bits of DNA from culture media. They seem unaware of the fact that actual chunks of bovine and porcine flesh get implanted into humans, or even that whole blood or WBC products contain oodles of DNA from someone else.

There's been lots of work on DNA vaccines, but unfortunately success as been nearly zero. One issue (not, as I dubiously understand it, the reason why they haven't been successful) is that a special blaster is required to get the DNA actually into vaccinee cells.

A friend is the director of communications at the World Mercury Project. https://worldmercuryproject.org/our-team/

I'm thinking about starting the "World Natural-Latex Project".

@ Orac's minions,

Would this be a copycat organization or are there multiple problems with vaccine components and packaging?

By Michael J. Dochniak (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

The fact that literally every detail of this is laughably untrue matters not to them. Purity of Essence™ is everything.

Sadly for Tim "The Sanctity of Human Blood" O'Shea, the stuff's a mess.

^ In somewhat related news, Babs Fisher's "staff" got excited about a similar bill in Missouri. Representative Morris seems to have mixed ideas about blood purity.

A friend is the director of communications at the World Mercury Project. https://worldmercuryproject.org/our-team/

I’m thinking about starting the “World Natural-Latex Project”.

I think you would be better served by finding some new friends.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

If Heckenlively wants to compare himself to Nelson Mandela, he should spend the next 27 years in prison. Not a bad idea in any case.

your blood is the same as your “bloodline”, and that “polluting” it will harm future generations.

The word "Aryan" is always there in the sub-text.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 30 Mar 2017 #permalink

Your article mentions Sherrie Saunders and her anti-vax notoriety.

She has other hobbies, like chemtrails and anti-child welfare interests.

I became associated with her because of her support of the parents of Baby Holm which continues to develop in Alabama, where she is.

She appears to be closely associated with the people behind the Medical Kidnap organization.

I have been lured into following and reporting on the Baby Holm case, in opposition to Sherrie and her Medical Kidnap people.

I have a FaceBook group for that at:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1425578747477117/

Dr. Margulis is the daughter of Lynn Margulis, a once reputable biologist, who turned into a nutcase in her declining years (HIV/AIDS denier among other issues). The acorn didn't fall far from the tree.

By colnago80 (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

RLBaty, I'm curious -- what is the Baby Holm case? A quick google search only turned up sites of . . . shall we say, dubious impartiality. (Mostly the Medical Kidnap group.) I can't follow the Facebook link at work.

By Calli Arcale (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

@ Calli Arcale

You asked what the "Baby Holm" case is about.

A couple of nature loving transients (not poor people, just yuppie types who thought they would travel around), thought it would be cute to have a baby in Cheaha State Park, in Cleburne County, AL.

They tried, but couldn't quite pull it off and wound up at the hospital where the State took custody of the baby and they've been trying to make a cause out of it since October.

Lots of different angles to the story, and it's the sovereign citizen angle that attracted me as explained in this article I posted:

http://kehvrlb.com/kents-brady-byrum-meddling-in-baby-holm-case

Of course, the case isn't what the sovcit promoters and the Medical Kidnap people make it out to be, which is one reason why I set up the FaceBook group previously referenced. We have a lot of good people in that group; many from Cleburne County, and I think we've done a pretty good job of exposing the False Holm Narrative for what it is; among other things.

By Robert Baty (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Calli Arcale (not verified)

@Calli Arcale: apparently, the parents are "free spirits" and also sovereign citizen types, who live in a tent and wander the country. She labored for 2 days before going to the hospital. They refused to fill out birth certificate/SSN info for the baby. I don't know (though, from experience in VA and NJ) Alabama, but generally a mother with no prenatal care is going to have drug testing done, and the baby will be held if it's positive.
Apparently there are other concerns about housing and things. (What I could figure out from various sites - I can't get onto FB at work either)

(What I could figure out from various sites – I can’t get onto FB at work either)

There was even a federal case. The Dropbox links aren't working on my current setup, but I'll take a look after I get back from an appointment.

Chris@44

I think everybody over the age of 18 should be given the option of getting a shingles vaccine,if they have had chicken pox.This business of suggesting the vaccine just to people over 60 is complete and utter BS.Most of us here know chicken pox is not a benign disease.I had chicken pox at age seven.I had heart complications,nearly died,and spent over a week in the hospital.I had shingles twice before I as forty.

This might be of interest to some of you:

RFK Jr. A disgrace to science

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

If you were one of the few children who have chickenpox complications, doesn't that suggest you might also be less likely than a typical child to benefit from the vaccine, given your inability to mount a normal, healthy immune response? The vaccine does have a fairly high failure rate.

There has never been any real dispute that the vast majority of children who contract chickenpox do not experience any complications. That was one major point of debate before the vaccine was licensed--whether the risks of chickenpox outweigh the risks inherent in vaccination. The most powerful voices in that decision would undoubtedly be vaccine manufacturers and others with conflicts of interests.

There is a big question about whether the chickenpox vaccine will do anything whatsoever to prevent shingles. The vaccine contains a live weakened strain of the chickenpox virus that causes an infection that produces no symptoms. That means the virus could re-emerge later in life to cause shingles.

But why worry? Sure, the rate of shingles has increased since the vaccine came out. But the only rational conclusion is that we need more and more and more vaccines for everyone!

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Roger Kulp (not verified)

I agree, Roger. Especially if the person had chicken pox as an infant, because they are more likely to get shingles at a younger age.

By the way, age sixty is the minimum age it would typically get paid by health insurance. Our family doctor suggests it to his patients to get it at age fifty. So both my spouse and myself got it a few years ago. We not quite sixty (almost though!).

@ Calli Arcale

Many anti-vaxxers and others are also promoting the False Holm Narrative because one of the things the Baby Holm parents did did at hospital (i.e., no Vit K, no vaccines, no birth certificate, no name, no SSN; they just wanted to get their baby and disappear back into the woods).

By Robert Baty (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

Fuck you all - shame on you for trying to sweep our vaccine injured children (we're the lucky ones - as many if not more are dead as opposed to chronically ill and disabled) under the rug. You don't have the intelligence to question why questioning vaccine safety gets shut down so hard and fast? Have you read the list of demands? You wouldn't demand that for your own kids? Your disgusting awful people. Fuck you all.

The rally certainly seems to be a big success... in a purely homeopathic sense of the word "big".:
Very early Friday:
https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/31/vaccine-skeptic-protest/

Just look at those crowds!!!11!!!!! There must be dozens!!!
... and they all look *ahem* well fed - their immune systems must be amazing!!!

It looks like the weather is cooperating nicely as well.
D.C. hasn't seen crowds this big since Wendy's put their double cheeseburgers on sale last month.

oh - i get it - you only approve vax fanatic propaganda comments. cute.

Commenters who've never posted a comment here go to moderation, and I have a day job!

A friend is the director of communications at the World Mercury Project.

The World Mercury Project is very clear - Autism is mercury poisoning, and mercury is the cause of Autism. You claim that Autism is caused by latex in the vaccine packaging.

Is Rita Shreffler wrong? Are you wrong? Are you both right?

"Dozens" - too funny.

@Layla -

Thank you for the offer, but, no. I learned a long time ago not to put my d!ck in crazy.

However, Jake over at AI sounds as if he would be willing to take you up on your offer. It seems your crazy matches his crazy.

we’re the lucky ones – as many if not more are dead as opposed to chronically ill and disabled

Stupidity is NOT A VACCINE INJURY, Layla.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

Those who could use a chuckle (or even a horse laugh) might enjoy the blowback from an article on BuzzFeed which deals with antiscience forces on the Internet. The writer, Stephanie Lee, had the utter gall to attack "one of the most visionary humanitarian scientists on planet Earth", yea, a veritable Schweitzer, Linus Pauling and Samuel Hahnemann rolled up into one. One guess who this falsely maligned genius is.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemlee/inside-the-internets-war-on-scie…

I will not link directly to the eruption of slime on the website run by this humanitarian scientist. However, it's evident that he is hiring writers who are rejects from the North Korean News Agency, fired for going ludicrously over the top in their praise of the Great Leader.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

“Dozens” – too funny.

I liked this note in the Stat report:

One advocate held a sign saying “Polio was a false flag”.

Paralysis crisis actors! Aviation fuel can't melt iron lungs!

My own grasp on "consensus reality" is never that great (and WHO LET THOSE BATS INTO THE ROOM?!), but I can't even with these moronic Troothers who choose to live in delusion.
I can't even with these

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

NWO Troll: "Sure, the rate of shingles has increased since the vaccine came out."

Oh, pull on your big girl pants and just get the shingles vaccine. Only a needle phobic ghoul who hates kids thinks that children should get sick just so old folks like you can avoid shingles.

Mike Adams, a Texas software engineer turned media mogul

No mention of the Y2K scams and the spamming software on which he built his career? I am disappoint.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

And another report:
http://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-skeptic-protest-577526
.
"Several dozen people gathered outside the National Press Club this morning,..."
Looks like they lost some stragglers on the way to their protest at the National Press Club.
.
What are they protesting? It doesn't seem very clear but that's never stopped an anti-vaccine cultist before.
... something about the media and 'Pay attention to us! Pay attention to us, you big, eeevyil, pHARMA bought media meanies!'
.
"Insisting that the United States has the sickest children in the entire world, she called for truth and transparency."
This should come as a surprise to all US citizens who have never encountered delusional anti-vaccine conspirinoids. Little did they know the US has the "sickest chill-run in the entire wherl!"
I can hear the jaws dropping open even now...

The ABC and CBS local stations didn't cover it in their evening news, and Washington Post doesn't have anything on their web site (yet). We'll see what the morning brings.

Regarding the reporter who posted that story for StatNews, Sherrie Saunders had this posted to her FaceBook page:

(Begin quote.)

" Wanna have some fun?!?

Only one reporter showed up.

She listened to stories,
listened to the speakers,
spoke with the Vaxxed peeps,
RFK Jr, etc.

She smiled and was courteous.

All while tweeting nasty remarks
and calling the speakers liars and
their facts "fake news."

Her Twitter handle is @rebeccadrobbins
Her phone number is 714-478-4224
You're welcome :)"

#Informers

(End quote.)

By Robert Baty (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Johnny (not verified)

In new vaccine news, the CBC reports (without much detail) that the "second phase of testing", of a Zika vaccine is beginning.

@doug,

Astute readers know that the beginning of the NIAID Zika virus investigational DNA vaccine dose-ranging study signals the beginning of another battle in the fight for the survival of humanity as we confront the "increasingly escalating vaccine schedule" rather than an effort to prevent serious neurodevelopmental consequences of Zika virus disease. Will the global elite stop at nothing?

Still sticking with that Zika-microcephaly hoax, eh? I suppose...if you buy the idea that weak correlations prove causation. And that a virus that has been well known since the 1940s and has never been more serious than a common cold (if people even realize they have it) would all of a sudden turn into a terrible threat. I suppose it has never so much as crossed your mind that Zika might be cover for damage caused by something else. I mean, "the experts" assure us it's Zika, right? What is there to question? :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by brian (not verified)

"if you buy the idea that weak correlations prove causation"

heh.

Well, it's true that phrase is twisted a lot, to imply that strong correlations could not be indicative of causation, when in fact it is the first step in the investigation of causation. But that is with strong correlations, not weak ones--since strong correlation always exists when there is causation.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by rs (not verified)

I suppose it has never so much as crossed your mind that Zika might be cover for damage caused by something else.

I suppose that alternative explanations might appeal to some who are willfully and profoundly ignorant of flaviviruses in general and the neotropism of this virus in particular.

Just the opposite, actually. And it's worth gaining some knowledge about how viruses are isolated and identified. As well as familiarity with the microbiome. All healthy bodies contain trillions of microorganisms including viruses, some of which are considered hazardous, and yet they are living in harmony and not causing illness in healthy people.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by brian (not verified)

Chris Preston: I wonder if publishing in the BolenReport is a new low for Kent.

I don't think the man can hit 'low' anymore- he's already so far down he gives snakes altitude sickness. And his Lord of the Rings references always amuse me- he never seemed to realize that Aragorn wasn't the main character, nor did Aragorn score either of the decisive victories.

NWOReporter: There has never been any real dispute that the vast majority of children who contract chickenpox do not experience any complications.

Being completely utterly miserable and trying to scratch your skin off isn't generally seen as a complication, but it's definitely not sunshine and rainbows. And the fun thing about chicken pox is that it, like most of the herpes family (which I'm sure you're familiar with) stays with you for life. Would you like me to tell you about that wonderful week I had with half my face frozen? Oh, and like the others said, have fun with rabies. I see you've already got the foaming at the mouth thing down.

It's funny all the things that are controversial now. Feeding the hungry, Sesame Street, having eagles around, even clean air and water apparently all make the baby Jesus cry and are BAD THINGS. I don't think I'll ever be a good Christian; I'm not mean or mendacious enough.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

The long term adverse effects of the vaccine are unknown--including it's potential to cause cancer. And there is no indication the attenuated virus doesn't stay with you for life as well. And failure rates of up to 44% have been seen with the vaccine.

But it's no surprise there is a peculiar abundance of horror stories in these comments about infection with common childhood diseases. Telling such tales is a primary strategy in emotional warfare. :)

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Politicalguineapig (not verified)

Has the stupid troll with the idiot shit-eating grin presented so much as a tiny fraction of an original idea in the entire time she's been dumping here?

just to be clear, my comment that should appear after PGP's when it is released from moderation does not refer to PGP

NWO Troll, yeah... we know you mostly fear the varicella vaccine because you are a needle phobic ghoul who fears shingles and loves the thought of kids getting sick to protect your old withering body. So you make up a bunch of stuff, just because you love argument by blatant assertion... and the suffering of small children.

Here is an idea... actually provide citations for your assertions. How about some PubMed indexed studies that the affects of the varicella vaccine are worse than getting chicken pox. One caveat, the authors must be qualified and reputable, so none by Gary Goldman (whose PhD in computer science is probably not valid).

Nah. It's just that there's no indication whatsoever the chickenpox vaccine will prevent shingles--in fact, based on the numbers, it appears to be just the opposite. I just see the chickenpox vaccine as a sick, dangerous joke on humanity, as do 99.999% of people who suffered through a few days of itching just fine, and wound up with stronger immune systems because of it. 99% of the the other .001% appear to be commenting on this blog. :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Chris (not verified)

I call bullshit, Orac, I didn't see anything about this in the news today. Typical pro-vaccine false flag post, in my opinion.

And that a virus that has been well known since the 1940s and has never been more serious than a common cold (if people even realize they have it) would all of a sudden turn into a terrible threat.

This dude thinks he know more than thousands of doctors and scientists, but is apparently unaware of mutations.
Fail.

LOL. I knew someone would bring up that assumption. And of course it is an assumption. But it fits the agenda, so run with it! :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by TBruce (not verified)

Oops, forgot that NWOR is female.
Correction: This nitwit thinks she knows more than thousands of doctors and scientists, but is apparently unaware of mutations.
Fail.

@ MI Dawn: all pregnant women get a drug screen as part of routine prenatal care, not for legal reasons. The goal is to screen and educate the mothers.

However, some states have draconian laws regarding drug use in pregnancy and Alabama (where the Holm case is playing out) is one of them. If some suspicion during the labor came up at the hospital (admitting to drug use even pot would do it) then a simple meconium test would show if the mother smoked pot while pregnant. That's enough to take the baby in Alabama, and could have resulted in criminal charges for her.

I read the biased sovcit reports on this case. The increasingly complex allegations against the state by the Holms are reaching conspiracy nut critical mass, and it's clear the medical kidnap people simply don't understand the law or how hospitals work when it comes to things like discharge instructions. There's more to this story than meets the eye and I suspect a lot of the Holms' claims are BS designed to detract from the fact they broke laws they don't want to be held accountable for.

Having said that, prosecuting mothers who smoke pot during pregnancy is just stupid and counter productive, and if these people want to be hippies and live in the woods they're more than welcome to as long as they mind their own business.

LOL. I knew someone would bring up that assumption.

Uh huh. Sure you did.

Yep. That's from Misdirection 101. :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

In reply to by TBruce (not verified)

Yep. That’s from Misdirection 101.

I hate to break this to you, Ginny, but you're a dullard. Even your stock routine evinces a lack of original thought anywhere. It's all lazy assertions and deflection.

Now, do tell everybody about gravitational waves.

When I suggested that NWO Reporter's nonsensical post was due to profound ignorance, NWO Reporter responded, "Just the opposite, actually. And it’s worth gaining some knowledge about how viruses are isolated and identified. As well as familiarity with the microbiome."

NWO Reporter, could you please expand on that comment? Do you think that none of us here "have some knowledge of how viruses are isolated and identified" or have any "familiarity with the microbiome?" FWIW, since I'm confident that I published in virology before you were born and I worked for years on interactions in the microbiome, I think you're full of shit.

Now, could you please explain why the neurotropism of the Zika virus is explained by vaccination?

This nitwit thinks she knows more ...

This time 'round she's just horking back up what she ate from Alex Jones's litter box.

When I suggested that NWO Reporter's nonsensical post was due to profound ignorance, NWO Reporter responded, "Just the opposite, actually. And it’s worth gaining some knowledge about how viruses are isolated and identified. As well as familiarity with the microbiome."

NWO Reporter, could you please expand on that comment? Do you think that none of us have more "knowledge of how viruses are isolated and identified" or "familiarity with the microbiome" than a psychology major?

Now, could you please explain why the neurotropism of the Zika virus is explained by vaccination? Really, Ginny, could you please explain how many of your psychology classes addressed flavivirus pathology and developmental biology to indicate that you are not full of shit? Thanks.

NWOweaksauce: Telling such tales is a primary strategy in emotional warfare.

'Scuse you. You want national policy to be altered based on nothing more than your 'fweelings' and then you accuse other people who are sticking to facts of 'emotional warfare'? I think you should stick to your job as a movie projector. Get off the net please, you're making women everywhere look bad. Cool it with the emojis too, this ain't facebook.
(Also, you're a flat-earther, soo maybe you should go back to kindergarten until you can recognize what a fact is?)

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 31 Mar 2017 #permalink

"People who are sticking to facts...." Good one! And throwing in the bit about flat earth, too. That psy-op is useful all over the place, isn't it? :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Politicalguineapig (not verified)

NWO Troll: " I just see the chickenpox vaccine as a sick, dangerous joke on humanity, as do 99.999% of people who suffered through a few days of itching just fine, and wound up with stronger immune systems because of it. 99% of the the other .001% appear to be commenting on this blog."

How does a "stronger immune system" make you more susceptible to shingles? Which is something that you apparently fear more than chicken pox. Which probably you were too sick as a kid to even remember.

Oh, honey... the magic probability ball says you are going to get shingles. Your old withered being that totally forgot how sick you were because you were so very sick... is going to force kids to suffer with chicken pox, instead of skipping it with a vaccine.

But as needle phobic ghoul you are too freaked out to get a shingles vaccine... because you love seeing kids get sick.

Own it, NWO Ghoul. You fear shingles, you hate needles, and you hate children. Therefore you want them to suffer from a painful preventable disease because you are a coward.

Straight from the Department of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt:

The long term adverse effects of the vaccine are unknown–including its potential to cause cancer.

Ah, yes, the good 'ole "long-term effects" gambit. And you know what? Yup, vaccines do have long-term effects, most notably immunity from disease.
But can you name even one vaccine from the past hundred years or so that turned out to be carcinogenic? Or even one vaccine with proven detrimental long-term effects in any significant way? In other words, is your suggestion that vaccines may be associated with long-term risks, and even cancer, based in factual history? Nope, I don' t think so.

You might just as well suggest that we should be wary of every new flavor of, for instance, weetabix, as the long-term effect of this particular combination of ingredients is unknown–including its potential to cause cancer.

In fact, since vaccines and their ingredients are far better researched than any common foodstuff, the potential to do harm is also far greater in food than in vaccines (and indeed, health incidents with food crop up quite regularly, quite contrary to incidents involving vaccines).

You really should change your nickname to FUD Reporter or something similar.

Travis at 112, you are a bore. Now be a good boy and toddle off.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

Either Orac has done a brilliant job of satire, or Travis has a major case of orchitis and is impersonating our host.

While I have no doubt Orac could write a brilliant satire, I'm going with the latter.

Bad move, Travis. Fuck off.

@ NWO Reporter:

You write about Zika virus: "that a virus that has been well known since the 1940s and has never been more serious than a common cold> First, I guess you are ignorant that viruses mutate. Second, an association doesn't exist until one notices it and given the numerous problems newborns experience in Third World nations, it wasn't really noticed until it spread to developed countries.. And actually the research involves more than just correlations. For instance: "ZIKV infection was particularly evident in hematopoietic cells with microglia, the brain-resident macrophage population being one of the main targets. Infection induces high levels of proinflammatory immune mediators such as interleukin 6 (IL-6), tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-α), interleukin 1β (IL-1β), and monocyte chemotactic protein 1 (MCP-1)." [Lum et al (2017 Apr). Zika Virus Infects Human Fetal Brain Microglia and Induces Inflammation. Clinical Infect Dis; 64(7): 914-920]; "Using the Bradford Hill Viewpoints as an evaluation framework for causation is highly suggestive that the association between Zika virus and microcephaly is causal." Awadh et all (2017 Feb 22). Does Zika Virus Cause Microcephaly - Applying the Bradford Hill Viewpoints; PLoS Curr.

I could list a number of additional papers; but I doubt it will change your mind.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

“Microcephaly may result from any insult that disturbs early brain growth and can be seen in association with hundreds of genetic syndromes…Annually, approximately 25,000 infants in the United States will be diagnosed with microcephaly…” -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19752457

But no--it''s Zika! Dear God, when are we going to get that vaccine?! Round up the pregnant women. fast! :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Joel A. Harris… (not verified)

@ Orac:

You write: "Chris! Take it easy. NWO is making some great points. Don’t be so harsh. I’ve decided to be more anti-vaccine lately after finally reading all of the great information at vaccinepapers.org. Aluminum is actually really toxic, but I drank the kool-aid and just believed what Paul Offit et al said.
My next article will be about aluminum toxicity. I am going to spearhead a campaign to supplant aluminum hydroxide adjuvant with calcium phosphate adjuvant. Stay tuned!"

You do understand that aluminum is one of the most ubiquitous substances on the planet and the infants get much more from their mother's milk or formula and elsewhere than from vaccines? Vaccine.papers only lists cherry-picked negative papers. Has someone hijacked your name as I can't believe you wrote the above?

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

You do understand the difference between injecting a substance into the body and ingesting it, right Mr. PhD, MPH? I'd venture a guess that undigested proteins are far more ubiquitous than aluminum, and yet they are known to be quite hazardous if they escape our digestive tract. Go figure.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Joel A. Harris… (not verified)

Well, the evil pharma-driven mass media appears to be ignoring the several dozen antivaxers (a.k.a. Mass March Revolution for Truth) that showed up in D.C. yesterday.

I couldn't find any stories on either ABC news or CBS news online. ABC did have one on people volunteering for a Zika vaccine trial, plus the White House being illuminated in blue lights for autism awareness on Sunday:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/white-house-colored-blue-sunday-…

Obviously Autism Speaks has sponsored this event to please its Pharma Masters, and draw attention away from Kent H. and R.F.K. Jr.

The conspiracy runs deep and wide...

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

Of course aluminum is toxic. Ever tried chewing on a piece of aluminum foil? Yowch!

Comments by the real Orac have a grey background box.

I'm guessing Orac is travelling or perhaps just relaxing for a bit. As he has pointed out recently, he does have a day job - quite unlike Travis J. Schwochert, the fake Orac.

I tell ya. He must be desperate. He used an e-mail address that I haven't used in a year.

In areas in which Zika has been indigenous for decades (or longer), young women get infected long before they bear children, thus when they became pregnant, the chances of birth defects faded into background noise.

In areas in which Zika has spread, women are getting infected at exactly the wrong time (when they are pregnant or become pregnant), thus why is this a growing problem.

Again, this is all immunology 101-type material, but I would expect that anti-vax trolls wouldn't understand basic science if it bit them.

Pure conjecture--with an agenda. In case you missed this: "Microcephaly may result from any insult that disturbs early brain growth and can be seen in association with hundreds of genetic syndromes…Annually, approximately 25,000 infants in the United States will be diagnosed with microcephaly…” — https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19752457

I'd like to know what other factors--for example, the heavy pesticide use in Brazil; malnutrition in some populations in Brazil--could be behind an increase in microcephaly. But let's focus on Zika. Because after all, there is never going to be a vaccines for malnutrition, or pesticide use, or any other environmental contaminant.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Lawrence (not verified)

The "march" didn't even make the local news around here.....

Oh, joy. I missed the "lecture" about aluminum from the unemployed window washer, who referenced a website by a guy who sells vaping supplies.

And it is hilarious that the varicella vaccine has no aluminum adjuvants. And it has never contained thimerosal. Just more clueless excuses by grown adults who hate kids and fear shingles. The window washer, vape seller and silly woman who still believes in decades old conspiracy theories just want to see kids suffer from a painful itchy disease because they can't be bothered to get a shingles vaccine.

"unemployed window washer"

If an unemployed window washer doesn't wash windows is an unemployed window washer a window washer? I could just as well be called an unemployed window washer since I'm not employed to wash windows. Travis is something else, and it ain't something so benign as an unemployed window washer.

Yet another example of an anti-vaxer who can't be bothered to keep up on current research into Zika.

Epidemiological studies of areas of Africa where Zika was first discovered showed that females are infected well before child-bearing age & that the population has somewhat "adapted" and developed a certain level of immunity to the virus.

As the virus has spread to new areas, it enters completely non-immune populations & infects women when they are pregnant and become pregnant.

Again, this is all immunology and epidemiology 101 & is borne out with all of the research done over the past few years. Tens of thousands of cases of Zika have been identified in Puerto Rico & a number of microcephaly cases have been linked directly back to the virus.

And you talk like have "more" cases of microcephaly is a good thing? You really are just stupid, aren't you?

And NWOR - where are all the "awoken" people, when anti-vaxers can't even get 100 people to show up to their "March on Washington?"

@Lawrence

When I suggested that fools like the former psychology major who suggested that Zika virus-associated microcephaly is a "hoax" are willfully and profoundly ignorant of flaviviruses in general and the neotropism of Zika virus in particular, she responded, "Just the opposite, actually." There you have it: training in areas that are unrelated to medicine and virology makes you an instant expert in medicine and virology. I would be interested in NWO Reporter's demonstration that she is "just the opposite" of profoundly ignorant of Zika virus disease and the clear evidence for Zika's tropism for placenta and fetal brain:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/23/3/16-1499_article

BTW, although it's clear that the "immunology 101-type material" that NWO Reporter doesn't understand explains some of the historical differences in the epidemiology of ZIka virus disease, there may be another factor that affects the current Zika epidemic: the related Dengue virus. It's long been known that (1) as with Zika, the great majority of Dengue infections are clinically inapparent; (2) infection with another of the four Dengue serotypes after recovery from an initial infection greatly increases the risk of severe disease; (3) Dengue is spread by the same house-loving Aedes mosquitoes that spread Zika virus; and (4) Dengue virus disease is epidemic in Brazil. Now it seems that, as with Dengue, prior infection with a related flavivirus (e.g., Dengue virus) may exacerbate Zika virus disease.

@ NWO Reader:

You write: "You do understand the difference between injecting a substance into the body and ingesting it, right Mr. PhD, MPH? I’d venture a guess that undigested proteins are far more ubiquitous than aluminum, and yet they are known to be quite hazardous if they escape our digestive tract. Go figure."

I gave two articles and could give lots more. Yes, I know the difference between intramuscular and digestive; but I also know how macrophages, etc. quite abundant in the subcutaneous, deal with foreign substances and have read numerous articles on aluminum and how the body deals with it. And it isn't just aluminum from food and liquid; but from breathing and tiny scratches since it is in the air and soil.

You also write: "Pure conjecture–with an agenda. In case you missed this: “Microcephaly may result from any insult that disturbs early brain growth and can be seen in association with hundreds of genetic syndromes…Annually, approximately 25,000 infants in the United States will be diagnosed with microcephaly…” — https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19752457"

Yep, just as fever and many other bodily states can be caused by numerous causes ; but the studies on Zika not only show an increase in microencephaly when Zika increases in area; but, as I mentioned there exist numerous studies, including finding residuals of Zika in brain tissue. If there is a spike in some type of symptom/disorder at the same time as there is a spike in lab verified microbe and then additional studies, including brain tissues, find the microbe, either one accepts the high probability that the microbe is involved or rejects science.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

I guess I was right that someone has hijacked Orac's name. Too bad there isn't a law against this as, in a way, it is, in my opinion, a form of defamation of character/libel or fraud. Maybe he can put some sort of block on fakes. The fact that someone would do something like this just proves they are unethical, dishonest, and have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

But let’s focus on Zika.

OK. According to https://www.cdc.gov/zika/geo/pregnancy-outcomes.html

Outcomes of Pregnancies with Laboratory Evidence of Possible Zika Virus Infection in the United States

Completed pregnancies with or without birth defects 1,228

Liveborn infants with birth defects 54

Pregnancy losses with birth defects 7

Each year, there are about 4 Million births per year

4M/1228 = 3257 and change

3257*54= 175,878

3257*7= 22,799

That's a lot of birth defects and dead babies. But, yeah, Zika's nothing, right? Not to a vaccine phobic child hater like NWOR, it aint.

Sure, Zika isn't going to spread across the entire United States, but if you are in, or travel to, a state that does have Zika, or have sex with someone who does, while the odds of a complicated pregnancy are low, they aren't that low.

The Zika story brings to mind not just virus frauds from recent years designed to instill panic for profit, such as H1N1 and SARS, but also the history of the investigation of Beriberi, a disease that caused considerable suffering for centuries.

Those were more innocent times. Pasteur was our new hero, and since Beriberi obviously seemed to be contagious, its cause was assumed to be a micro-organism. Many decades were spent trying to associate this disease, which is caused by a thiamine deficiency, with a microorganism.

History repeats itself, but it's intentional--driven by corruption in high places, and carried out by high IQ clueless with research funding in mind. Complicating matters is a world filled with environmental contaminants, and population control objectives, from which attention must be diverted at all costs. http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/library/alumni/online_exhibits/digital/2001/…

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ NWO Reporter:

1. H1N1 led to higher numbers of deaths in children than usual flus over recent years though the total number of deaths was less than expected. I guess deaths of children doesn't count with you?
2. SARS had a high mortality rate; but because it was only contagious after symptomatic and has a "long" incubation time compared to flu which is contagious prior to being symptomatic with shorter incubation time. This allowed, with considerable luck and lots of work, public health to trace and contain the outbreak. Had it functioned as flu, given little successful treatment, we would have had a world-wide catastrophe. Since no one knew before hand the incubation period and when contagious, it would have been as stupid as you appear to be to wait and see rather than mobilizing resources and dealing with it.

Sure, one can point to episodes in history. Leukemia was originally thought caused by some sort of infection, then realized a form of cancer. This was 150 years ago and beriberi was 100 years ago. How stupid, really stupid to refer to events that happened in distant past without taking any notice of subsequent developments.

Maybe you would like to stop all chemotherapy for cancer as the first attempts did not save lives and put patients through terrible ordeals above and beyond the cancer. Or, perhaps, you would like to stop heart transplants since the first were also catastrophes.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

Nothing has changed since that "distant past." Just like with Zika, researchers identify a tiny amount of the virus via a PCR test in a small portion of microcephalic babies, and commence focusing on it as a causative agent to the exclusion of all other causes. There's no money in identifying an environmental contaminant or nutritional deficiency as a causative agent.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Joel A. Harris… (not verified)

@Dr Joel -- I notice she carefully avoided mentioning Ebola.

By shay simmons (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

Ebola is in the same class. Millions of people carry the Ebola virus with no ill effects.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by shay simmons (not verified)

The only think that keeps NitWitOrdure's head from being completely empty is the fact she has sh!t for brains.

@NWRO - really, millions?

Citation, please.

"A research team determined that 25 percent of individuals in a Sierra Leone village were infected with the Ebola virus but had no symptoms..." This was in a village of 900 people where there were 34 reported cases of Ebola--one of the 'hardest hit' areas. "Richardson and his colleagues decided to go back to the village to try to determine whether the Ebola infection could be minimally symptomatic, as previous studies have suggested."

So, estimating the numbers from this article...there were 28k reported cases of Ebola in Africa, so I guess a fairer estimate would be about 185k asymptomatic cases, not millions. But who knows...to my knowledge, no such research has been done in areas where there were no reported cases. :) https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/11/study-finds-people-with-…

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Lawrence (not verified)

Millions of people carry the Ebola virus with no ill effects.

Citation needed.

Nit Wit, you have all the answers, while we poor scientists and health care professionals are too dumb and corrupt to recognize your genius.
Nice ego trip you're on there. I can understand why you'd be hooked on that pathetic delusion. Without it, you would have nothing.

NWO Reporter:

In the March 2017 study that I cited above, Zika virus replicative and genomic RNA was detected by RT-PCR in brain tissues of all 8 infants with fatal microcephaly, and in situ hybridization demonstrated Zika virus in neural cells, neurons, and degenerating glial cells in the cerebral cortex (but not in other tissues) in 7 of 8. In 4 of 5 nonfatal cases of suspected Zika-associated microcephaly the placenta was PCR-positive for Zika virus. In 24 PCR-positive suspected cases of maternal Zika infections with adverse pregnancy/birth outcomes, 23 of 24 had maternal symptom onset during the first trimester, whereas all 8 PCR-positive pregnancies with apparently healthy infants had symptom onset in the third trimester.

These results demonstrate Zika virus neurotropism and reinforce previous in vitro and animal studies that demonstrated that Zika virus infects human neural stem and progenitor cells and causes severe pathologic changes in the brain but not in other visceral organs when infection occurs early in pregnancy. But of course you knew all that, because you are "just the opposite" of profoundly uninformed.

You have to admit that that's a pretty elaborate hoax. Will the global elite stop at nothing?

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/23/3/16-1499_article

You aren't suggesting that the mere presence of minute amounts of Zika detected in a PCR test are proof of causation of microcephaly, are you? Because a lot of researchers disagree with you about that.

"Zika virus has spread throughout Brazil, but extremely high rates of microcephaly have been reported only in the country's northeast. Although evidence suggests that Zika can cause microcephaly, the clustering pattern hints that other environmental, socio-economic or biological factors could be at play.

"'We suspect that something more than Zika virus is causing the high intensity and severity of cases,' says Fatima Marinho, director of information and health analysis at Brazil’s ministry of health.

"'I think they may be on to something,' says Linda Birnbaum, director of the US National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Zika was discovered in 1947 and hadn’t been implicated in birth defects until now; and current strains of the virus don’t show any significant mutations that might have increased its virulence. 'So why now?' she asks."

http://www.nature.com/news/brazil-asks-whether-zika-acts-alone-to-cause…

Seems a lot of healthy babies would also test positive for Zika on a PCR test. But never mind--full speed ahead with the pesticide clouds, vaccines and abortions! And best to stop getting pregnant for now, until we sort this all out. Because we care.

It's true: The global psychopathic parasites (aka 'elite') will stop at nothing. Fear mongering and misdirection are two of their specialties.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by brian (not verified)

Here's more:

"The study identifies 1,850 women that are being tracked, whose date of infection with Zika is known, and is known relative to the start of the pregnancy. Of these, 532, 702, and 616 were infected in the first, second and third trimesters respectively. 16%, 29% and 93% (85, 204, and 583) of the pregnancies have concluded.* No cases of microcephaly were observed.

"This gives a consistent interpretation that there is no direct link between Zika and microcephaly except for random co-occurrence.

"An alternative cause of microcephaly in Brazil could be the pesticide pyriproxyfen, which is cross-reactive with retinoic acid, which causes microcephaly, and is being used in drinking water."

http://necsi.edu/research/social/pandemics/statusreport

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by brian (not verified)

@ NWO Reporter:

You write: "There’s no money in identifying an environmental contaminant or nutritional deficiency as a causative agent." How absolutely absurd. First, there is a ton of money being spent on research into environmental contaminants and besides already knowing quite a bit about nutritional deficiencies there is ongoing research. Second, you miss the elephant in the room, namely, that vaccines aren't all that profitable. They represent about 2% of world-wide pharmaceutical revenues, about the same as one of the best selling statins.

You write: "Millions of people carry the Ebola virus with no ill effects." First, even if that were true, given the high number of deaths experienced recently in West Africa, anyone with a brain would still consider it a serious disease, except you, of course; but there are several well-done studies that found a seroprevalence of around 3%; but follow-up found nothing after a couple of weeks, though a few cases may have carried it longer.

Bower et al (2017 Jan 31). Analysis: A systematic review and
meta-analysis of seroprevalence surveys of ebolavirus infection. Scientific Data.

"This new highly specific and sensitive assay showed asymptomatic infection with Ebola virus was
uncommon despite high exposure. The low prevalence suggests asymptomatic infection contributes little to herd
immunity in Ebola, and even if infectious, would account for few transmissions." [Glynn et ak (2017 Feb 17). Asymptomatic infection and unrecognised Ebola virus disease in Ebola-affected households in Sierra Leone: a cross-sectional study using a new non-invasive assay for antibodies to Ebola virus. Lancet Infectious Disease]

By the way, given your absurd use of beriberi, do you even believe that microbes cause disease? If not, perhaps, we should stop filtering water and using chlorine. Maybe the 1993 outbreak of cryptospordiosis in Milwaukee was simply caused by malnutrition in all 420,000 who suffered terrible diarrhea for months. Or maybe the history of cholera is a lie as well?

One of the problems with the internet is anonymity. Though an old man I'd love to debate someone like you in public in front of a large neutral audience. Would be quite entertaining to see you make a fool of yourself.

Though in my 70s, I still devote 1 1/2 to 2 hours per day reading articles on infectious diseases, current and historical. And I'm proud of my PhD and MPH. I worked quite hard to get them. I wonder what you can claim to be proud of, if anything?

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

I can think of many people much more qualified than me who would undoubtedly be eager to debate you on these issues. And I would love to see it. :)

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Joel A. Harris… (not verified)

So, you admit that you made a baseless assumption?

I guess that's progress.

No problem--although as I said, there is no way to know if it was correct or not. Now, why don't you go ahead and acknowledge that, for every person who tests positive for Ebola and gets sick, at least 6 more test positive for Ebola and do not get sick at all. :)

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Lawrence (not verified)

So, estimating the numbers from this article…there were 28k reported cases of Ebola in Africa, so I guess a fairer estimate would be about 185k asymptomatic cases, not millions.

That's backwards, isn't it? If it's true that 25% of the cases are asymptomatic, and there were 28k reported cases, the total cases would be 37K, and 9k asymptomatic.

Of course, I said 'if'.

See this later study -

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(17)30110…

In The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Judith Glynn and colleagues present a carefully conducted, well-controlled serosurvey to take a fresh look at the possibility of subclinical EVD exposure and infection. During the recent large EVD outbreak (over 28000 cases) in western Africa, Sierra Leonean household contacts of people with proven EVD were screened for IgG anti-Ebola virus antibodies using a newly developed, non-invasive oral fluid capture assay with high specificity and sensitivity. Seroprevalence among household contacts who did not experience clinical signs indicative of EVD was only 2.6%. This value suggests that asymptomatic Ebola virus infections occur rarely, even when individuals have direct contact to individuals infected with Ebola virus. This result is in line with the observation that individuals infected with Ebola virus typically experience grave and frequently lethal disease, and cast further doubt on results of previous serosurveys. Although a single study such as that of Glynn and colleagues does not suffice to come to wide-sweeping conclusions about the possibility and frequency of subclinical individuals infected with Ebola virus infections, their results certainly indicate that such infections are not a typical or widespread phenomenon.

No. In a town of 900, 225 were infected with Ebola, but only 34 got sick.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Johnny (not verified)

As for your Lancet study...so, a single study utilizing a brand new type of test casts doubt on the results of numerous previous studies showing asymptomatic Ebola infection is common? Nah, I don't think so.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Johnny (not verified)

Yes, admitting baseless assumptions and ignorance about the real issues...this is, in fact, progress.

Perhaps you should take some time and actually travel with the professionals who risk their lives on a daily basis, traveling to the worst places on earth & tracking down these infectious diseases.

I would have recommended a colleague of mine, but he died in the field, treating those who were infected with Ebola.

You and your ilk really piss me off, because you never take the opportunity to actually understand the implications of your own ignorance.

You didn't actually bother to read the whole study, did you?

So, she also admits that she rejects new information which contradicts her beliefs....again, the first step in solving a problem is admitting she has one.

@ NWO Reporter:

You write: "As for your Lancet study…so, a single study utilizing a brand new type of test casts doubt on the results of numerous previous studies showing asymptomatic Ebola infection is common? Nah, I don’t think so."

In comment #150 I also listed:

Bower et al (2017 Jan 31). Analysis: A systematic review and
meta-analysis of seroprevalence surveys of ebolavirus infection. Scientific Data.

In case the words are beyond your understanding, it was a review of 51 studies with the analysis done on 8 that met their minimal criteria for validity, and I also mentioned I could list many more.

And you write: "Now, why don’t you go ahead and acknowledge that, for every person who tests positive for Ebola and gets sick, at least 6 more test positive for Ebola and do not get sick at all."

Even if that were true (it's not), it would be frightening as those 6 could potentially pass on the infection to others and, given the number of horrific deaths from the disease, it would eventually turn into a pandemic of catastrophic proportions. How would you prevent asymptomatic carriers from spreading the disease? If you stopped traffic from West Africa, they could simply travel indirectly. Of course, you could cut US off from rest of world; but that wouldn't work as it would be virtually impossible to stop everyone who is asymptomatic from entering US, e.g. small boats, etc. And the global economic system would collapse.

And "I can think of many people much more qualified than me who would undoubtedly be eager to debate you on these issues. And I would love to see it."

If it were a debate only on Ebola I would need a couple weeks to prepare; but on vaccines and infectious diseases in general, bring it on.

In a Startrek episode Captain Kirk, while beaming down, is caught in some cosmic storm and ends up in a parallel universe. I wish I could beam you to a parallel universe where everything is exactly the same except no vaccine has ever been developed. Smallpox alone would kill up to 50% of children, polio would cripple 15,000 or more, the number of kids hospitalized for currently vaccine-preventable diseases would be several hundred thousand every year with several thousand developing permanent disabilities, e.g. blindness, deafness, seizure disorders, mental retardation.

Yep, it would be a great world to live in. And since you don't seem to even believe that microbe cause disease, the parallel universe wouldn't purify water, so we could add typhoid, cholera, and many other diseases to the list.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

Ebola is in the same class. Millions of people carry the Ebola virus with no ill effects.

It's cute that you don't even know what the word "carry" means in this context.

As for your Lancet study…so, a single study utilizing a brand new type of test casts doubt on the results of numerous previous studies showing asymptomatic Ebola infection is common?

Numerous? You cited a press release about one, and the release didn't even bother to directly identify the (open access, as is the one you're bitching about) paper. Jesus Christ, 12 of 185 is 6.5%, you dimwit.

The "brand new type of test" brain dropping is just dismayingly stupid. WTF do you think the assay was validated against? How do you think it works? What's the difference from the ELISAs? What is this "type"?

You aren’t suggesting that the mere presence of minute amounts of Zika detected in a PCR test are proof of causation of microcephaly, are you?

What's the over–under on the Kary Mullis quote's appearing?

You aren’t suggesting that the mere presence of minute amounts of Zika detected in a PCR test are proof of causation of microcephaly, are you? Because a lot of researchers disagree with you about that.

You're really fond of trivially false exaggerations, aren't you? And you're reduced to a nearly year-old item from the Nature pop-sci department?

Here’s more

I'm duly impressed that you'd invoke an old item* that includes a link to this on the very same page:

"The Zika virus, a mosquito-borne disease previously considered mild, has been implicated in an increasing number of microcephaly cases in infants whose mothers were infected during pregnancy. The urgency of addressing its pandemic spread through the Tropics has become acute."

Well played. It's not even necessary to bring up the rest of Bar-Yam's shtick.

* Dear G-d, they even "strongly recommend[ed] that the use of pyriproxyfen in Brazil be suspended."

In the press release cited by NWOR https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/11/study-finds-people-with-… I find these numbers -

The village, with about 900 residents...

There were 34 reported cases of Ebola in the village...

The researchers then recruited 187 men, women and children from Sukudu who had likely been exposed to Ebola...

Of these, 14 were found to be carrying antibodies to Ebola...

In combining the initial reports of 34 infections with the 14 newly identified cases, the researchers calculated the prevalence of minimally symptomatic infection in the village to have been 25 percent.

NWOR claims that 225 in the village were exposed, and 34 were sick.

If you add the likely exposed to the number of reported cases, you get 221 (close enough, I guess).

I say no. I say that 48 (34+14) were exposed, and 34 were sick.

One of us is clearly wrong. I await the verdict of the minions.

You call yourselves minions? Now that's funny. :D

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Johnny (not verified)

Well, really we're all just 'bots, but 'minion' makes people believe we're alive. Except Travis. He's a sock.

If you add the likely exposed to the number of reported cases, you get 221 (close enough, I guess).

"Of 193 individuals from Sukudu who were quarantined for sharing a public latrine or living quarters with a confirmed case, only 4 declined to participate. Ten individuals were initially excluded because of fever at the time of initial contact; none of these met the case definition for EVD. On reassessment one week later, all but one had defervesced and were able to provide blood samples. Two participants had failed venipuncture attempts for blood draw. We thus sampled a total of 187 individuals for anti-GP in 24 of 25 previously quarantined houses as defined above (the members of 1 quarantined household could not be located)."

I say no. I say that 48 (34+14) were exposed, and 34 were sick.

"n addition to the 16 confirmed EBOV infections with a fatal outcome, the 12 probable deaths from EVD, and 6 confirmed EBOV infections who survived (34 total cases), our serosurvey identified an additional 14 individuals who were anti-GP ELISA IgG-positive. Two of these individuals reported fever during the quarantine period, and 12 were classified as minimally symptomatic, contributing 25% (binomial exact 95% CI, 14% to 40%) to the total caseload. After including the 2 undocumented symptomatic cases with the 34 reported by the DERC, we calculated a 78% symptomatic case fatality ratio (binomial exact 95% CI, 61% to 90%)."

I would suggest that the most pathetic part of teh NWOR's "effort" is not even reading the freaking press release past the (sub-) hed.

Are you sure you're a minion? You seem more like a malfunctioning 'bot, possibly cobbled together from irregular parts obtained on clearance in the 'bot aftermarket.

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Narad (not verified)

NWO Reporter wrote

You aren’t suggesting that the mere presence of minute amounts of Zika detected in a PCR test are proof of causation of microcephaly, are you?

Well, no. A competent reader would have noted that I mentioned in vitro and animal studies that demonstrated that Zika virus infects human neural stem and progenitor cells and causes severe pathologic changes in the brain but not in other visceral organs when infection occurs early in pregnancy. Please try to keep up.

You might be interested in a February 2017 paper that shows that the evidence for causal association of Zika virus with microcephaly meets the Bradford Hill criteria:

http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/article/zika-virus-and-microcephaly-…

Are you sure you’re a minion?

Did I describe myself as one? Do you have anything substantive to say regarding what you're putatively replying to? Your egregious math fail? Anything?

You seem more like a malfunctioning ‘bot, possibly cobbled together from irregular parts obtained on clearance in the ‘bot aftermarket.

Oh, Johnnycakes, you don't even know. I don't think any of the retirees from the Service Center could be bothered to sift your text for one, though, given the overarching, bland failure of your prose, not to mention the sad Xtranormal Nawmal output.

Don't give up hope, Broke Bot. There are techs who can work wonders, even with your extent of malfunction. :)

By NWO Reporter (not verified) on 01 Apr 2017 #permalink

In reply to by Narad (not verified)

This is not a new idea

Fuck off, Travis.

Yeah, for a moment I thought that passionlessDrone had reappeared after three years, but it didn't take long to realize that it wasn't him.

Awwww, I was hoping pD was back to tell us what new self-awarded degrees he'd earned.

I must confess that I watched the "propaganda documentary" Vaxxed. I do not know enough about the subject matter to form an informed view. Since there are many people here who are knowledgeable on the topic, I would like to verify two claims from Vaxxed.
1.Has the MMR vaccine Trivarix been withdrawn from Canada in 1987 due to concerns that it causes meningitis ? Was the same MMR vaccine introduced in UK under the name Pluserix, but subsequently withdrawn due to the same concerns ?
2.Has Merc stopped a production of single vaccines, denying parents an option to choose M+M+R option instead of a single MMR jab ?

Has the MMR vaccine Trivarix been withdrawn from Canada in 1987 due to concerns that it causes meningitis ? Was the same MMR vaccine introduced in UK under the name Pluserix, but subsequently withdrawn due to the same concerns ?

The Pluserix vaccine contained the Urabe strain of mumps. The Urabe mumps strain results in a small frequency of aseptic meningitis (but much lower than for wild strain mumps infection). Therefore, vaccines containing the Urabe mumps strain have been withdrawn and replaced by the slightly less effective Jeryl-Lynn strain of mumps.

So yes Pluserix and TriVarix were withdrawn, but only because they contained the Urabe mumps strain. This vaccine was never used in the US.

Has Merc stopped a production of single vaccines, denying parents an option to choose M+M+R option instead of a single MMR jab ?

In 2009 on the advice of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Practitioners, Merck discontinued the single shot vaccines. All three groups advised that their position was that MMR was a better choice as it meant fewer shots for children and greater likelihood children would remain up to date on their vaccinations.

Just goes to show that you can't trust those professional pediatric societies. All they want is what is best for children, rather than pandering to the wishes of anti-vaccine parents.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

As an aside, I'm surprised no one noticed that "Awesome Mom" (whose posts are now deleted) is also Travis. That reminds me. I need to go back and delete the false passionlessDrone comment by him too.

I suspected as much, but I was in the middle of breakfast.....he really has nothing better to do, does he?

@ Peter:

You asked the following questions:

I would like to verify two claims from Vaxxed.
1.Has the MMR vaccine Trivarix been withdrawn from Canada in 1987 due to concerns that it causes meningitis ? Was the same MMR vaccine introduced in UK under the name Pluserix, but subsequently withdrawn due to the same concerns ? TRIVIRIX WHICH INCLUDED A STRAIN OF MUMPS CALLED URABE WAS FOUND TO HAVE A SMALL NUMBER OF CASES OF ASEPTIC MENINGITIS, NOT BACTERIAL MENINGITIS. ASEPTIC MENINGITIS, ALSO CALLED VIRAL MENINGITIS, IS A BENIGN CONDITION. IN MANY CASES ASYMPTOMATIC; BUT A FEW KIDS WERE HOSPITALIZED FOR 1 - 2 DAYS. THE ONLY TREATMENT GIVEN WAS REHYDRATION. ON LONG-TERM FOLLOW-UP THERE WERE NO RESIDUAL EFFECTS. MANY CHILDREN EXPERIENCE ASEPTIC MENINGITIS CAUSED BY A NUMBER OF VIRAL CONDITIONS. ANTIVACCINATIONISTS HOPE PEOPLE WILL CONFUSE ASEPTIC MENINGITIS WITH BACTERIAL MENINGITIS WHICH IS RARE; BUT A HORRIBLE DISEASE. SINCE CANADA ALREADY HAD AN APPROVED VACCINE WITH ANOTHER STRAIN OF MUMPS CALLED JERYL LYNN, TO AVOID EVEN THE BENIGN RARE ASEPTIC MENINGITIS THEY SWITCHED BACK, NOT IN 1987; BUT 1988-89, STARTING WITH A RECALL OF THE VACCINE BY THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO. PLEASE NOTE THAT IF THEY HAD NOT HAD THE OTHER VERSION OF AN MMR VACCINE THAT EVEN THE RARE BENIGN CONDITION CAUSED BY THE TRIVIRIX WAS STILL WORTH THE MUCH MORE FREQUENT AND SEVERE RISKS FROM THE ACTUAL DISEASES. THE UK HAD APPROVED IN 1972 A VACCINE WITH THE JERYL LYNN; BUT SINCE THEY HAD NOT IMPLEMENTED A VACCINE PROGRAM, THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT READY TO PRODUCE IT. THE UK, BASED ON NUMEROUS RESEARCH REPORTS THAT FOUND NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JERYL LYNN AND URABE HAD APPROVED PLUSERIX WHICH CONTAINED THE URABE FOR THEIR VACCINATION PROGRAM WHICH WAS TO BEGIN LATE 1988. WHEN THEY HEARD ABOUT THE CASES OF ASEPTIC MENINGITIS IN CANADA, THEY INVESTIGATED, FOUND THAT THE CANADIANS REPORTED THAT THE FEW CASES WERE BENIGN, SO THEY DECIDED TO SWITCH OVER TO JERYL LYNN VACCINES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; BUT, GIVEN THAT EVEN THE URABE PROTECTED AGAINST FAR WORSE CONDITIONS CAUSED BY THE NATURAL DISEASE, THEY DID THE INTELLIGENT THING AND DECIDED TO USE URABE UNTIL THEY COULD GET SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES OF THE JERYL LYNN. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING: "DON'T SACRIFICE THE GOOD FOR THE PERFECT." ANTIVACCINATIONISTS PLAY UP THE SMALL RISK OF THE BENIGN CONDITION ASEPTIC MENINGITIS AND IGNORE THE RISKS FROM THE NATURAL DISEASE.
[SEE MY ARTICLE: Wrong About Vaccine Safety: A Review of Andrew Wakefield’s “Callous Disregard”, 2013, PP. 12-13 AT: https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOVACJ/TOVACJ-6-9.pdf

JUST TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, ANTIVACCINATIONISTS ASSUME MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ASEPTIC/VIRAL MENINGITIS AND BACTERIAL MENINGITIS AND THUS WILL IGNORE THAT THE SMALL RISK FROM ASEPTIC MENINGITIS, A BENIGN CONDITION, WAS STILL FAR FAR BETTER THAN THE RISKS FROM THE ACTUAL DISEASE. AND THE WHO CONTINUED TO USE MMR WITH URABE UNTIL 2015.
2.Has Merc stopped a production of single vaccines, denying parents an option to choose M+M+R option instead of a single MMR jab ? LAST TIME I LOOKED, ONE COULD GET SINGLE MEASLES VACCINE IN UK; BUT ONLY FROM DOCTORS OFFICE WHO IMPORT IT THEMSELVES. THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE DOES NOT PROVIDE IT. SO, IF SOMEONE REALLY WANTS THE SINGLE VACCINE, THEY CAN PAY FOR IT. IT'S NOT THAT EXPENSIVE. I'M TOO LAZY TO LOOK UP WHO THE MANUFACTURER IS. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES THAT HAVE FOUND NO INCREASED RISKS FROM THE TRIVALENT MMR VACCINE. IN FACT, SEVERAL WELL-DONE STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT THE MMR VACCINE COMPARED TO UNIVALENT MEASLES VACCINE HAVE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME SMALL RISK OF ADVERSE EVENTS AND THAT IT IS THE MEASLES COMPONENT RESPONSIBLE FOR ALMOST ALL OF THEM. IN OTHER WORDS, WHETHER ONE GIVES JUST A MEASLES SHOT OR MMR, NO DIFFERENCE. HOWEVER, IT MEANS TAKING KID TO DOCTOR SEVERAL TIMES AND SUBJECTING TO SEVERAL SHOTS, BOTH UNPLEASANT FOR THE CHILD AND RISK THAT WILL MISS A SHOT AND BE VULNERABLE TO THE NATURAL DISEASES.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Orac:

I don't think you should delete comments using your name or others. Instead, I think in bold capitalized letters you should simply point out that they are examples of the dishonest lengths that people who can't logically and scientifically make their arguments go to to muddy the waters. Point out that taking someone else's name is unethical, dishonest, and reflects on the integrity of those doing it. You should be able somehow to put such comments directly in the respective comments.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@Peter #179

Did Wakefield happen to mention that the risk of meningitis from the Urabe mumps vaccine strain in the withdrawn versions of the MMR vaccine was about one thousand-fold less than the risk of meningitis from mumps?

British Medical Journal 1958;2:27-30.
Lancet 1993;341:979-82.
American Journal of Epidemiology 2003;157:157-165.
American Journal of Epidemiology 2007;165;704-9.

A couple of news items caught my eye today. First, Brazil is stepping up a campaign to vaccinate against yellow fever, now that disease spread has killed thousands of howler monkeys and at least 220 people:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/yellow-fever-brazil

Meantime, antivaxers have declared that the outbreak is solely due to bad sanitation, and are raising money to send sponge-bath kits to affected monkeys (OK, I made up that last part but it has the ring of antivax Truth).

In other news, here's a highly credulous article about the "benefits" of cannibalism - i.e. placentaphagy:

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170402/health-growing-number-of-moms-con…

Are there hard-core moms who eat the entire placenta raw after giving birth, the way animals do it in nature? That'd seem to be the way to go; none of this artificial dried-capsule stuff.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Brian:

Not only did Wakefield NOT mention the much higher risk of aseptic meningitis from the natural disease; but he called the vaccine, "a dangerous vaccine." I reserve "dangerous" for something that causes a serious acute condition and/or a chronic disability. Gee, maybe Wakefield has a problem with the English language? Read my article for more on Wakefield.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Brian:

I have built up an extensive library of articles on infectious diseases, well over 10,000 under various different folders. I try to find most articles discussed in comments. However, it helps if the person posting the article give a good reference, e.g author, title, year (month if available), journal, volume, issue, and pages. I checked out the four you listed, not easy to find, turns out I already had them. Please in future give better reference. I really don't like having to waste time. On the other hand, all excellent references.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

First, Brazil is stepping up a campaign to vaccinate against yellow fever, now that disease spread has killed thousands of howler monkeys and at least 220 people

The point here, BTW. is to prevent the outbreak's becoming urbanized.

Re placentas:

My women's health preceptor and I discussed this very issue last week. She doesn't see any benefit in it and neither do it. I find it hard to believe hormones would survive digestion; that's why insulin cannot be taken orally. The vitamins and iron you can get in your normal diet. I don't see anything beyond the placebo effect.

There's a lot of woo in the natural childbirth movement, and it seems to be more prevalent in the affluent patients who can afford it.

The obstetrician who owns the practice encourages Vit K and HepB vaccination, as well as TDaP but a lot of his patients refuse it.

@Joel re single dose vaccines: I can see a benefit for single dose vaccines, but not enough of one to keep producing them. My job required a pertussis booster a few years ago. I'm allergic to tetanus, and hesitated about getting the TDaP. My doctor said trying to find a single dose pertussis would be too expensive and time consuming for my employer. He put me on prednisone and Benadryl and I did fine.

That kind of situation probably isn't that common. I can think of no other reason to do a single dose form of MMR or TDaP.

@ #179 (Peter)

It's sometimes difficult to tell with Wakefield whether he's always lying or whether, in some cases, he is simply so ignorant and incompetent that he has a more benign reason for misleading.

In the case of Pluserix, he tries to make out (and with you has evidently succeeded) that there is something suspicious about identical products being marketed under different names.

In fact, this happens a lot, for a variety of reasons. I haven't checked, but one reason may have been that Trivarix was considered too similar-sounding to Trivax (a brand of DTP vaccine), or there may have been trademark issues. In any event, Plusarix would have been branded and in production before the similar product was withdrawn in Canada.

The reason the UK went ahead with Plusarix is that the Canadian (and Japanese) data weren't strong at the time, the product had already been ordered, and there was no ready alternative supply. Merck, which produced the Jeryl Lynn strain, wasn't capable of covering the order (and wasn't for some years), and there was additionally an established practice of trying to source vaccines from a variety of suppliers. Also, Merck's MMR II made kids cry more often.

The Urabe isssue is quite a complex one, no evidence of wrongdoing has ever been produced by anybody, and eventually the Urabe strain products were withdrawn as a result of research by government-employed or government-funded researchers.

It goes without saying that those researchers were not penalised, struck off, exposed for research fraud etc. And yet, contrary to Wakefield, their work led to two brands of MMR being withdrawn from the market.

By Brian Deer (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@188
Ah, Joel, I was merely trying to indicate to Peter that I wasn't blowing smoke--I doubted that he would actually read any references that I cited. FWIW, as you know, it's easy to find articles listed in even the abbreviated format that I used with PubMed's Advanced Search Builder by, for example, specifying the journal, the year of publication, and a keyword such as mumps: the search string ("British Medical Journal"[Journal]) AND "1958"[Date - Publication] mumps) could have taken Peter to a full free text version of the first article that I cited if he was genuinely interested. Sorry to require the extra step of you, but I thought under the circumstances I should avoid (at least the appearance of) pedantry.

... antivaxers have declared that the outbreak is solely due to bad sanitation ...

Stuff like that makes me want to break out assorted weapons.

The antivax idiots proclaim all can be fixed with sanitation. While it is undeniably true that poor sanitation is a serious problem, the fools seem to be content to allow poor people to die from disease while they languish in hopes of pristine poopatoria with warm running water in which to wash their hands while they sing iHappy Birthday (forget about the children who died, having seen only a birthday or two, due to vaccine preventable diseases) for timing.

What they really need is sidewalks they can stay on. Whatever happened to that twit?

@ Panacea:

You are absolutely right that a monovalent vaccine should be available for the RARE person who has a clear reaction to the antigens from another microbe in a multivalent vaccine; otherwise, as I wrote above, giving monovalent vaccines to kids confers NO benefit, causes additional pain from several sticks and the risk of getting behind in protection from vaccine-preventable diseases.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Doug:

As you write, sanitation has its limits. First, clean water and clean food, great; but especially airborne microbes can't be avoided by just hand washing, etc. Second, it turns out that polio broke the mold by becoming epidemic and more often serious because of sanitation. Prior to sanitation, infants were exposed to polio while still protected by their mother's antibodies. Even then cases of acute flaccid paralysis did occur, more than one would be happy with; but with sanitation, children became exposed to the virus after mother's antibodies gone and result, a lot more cases of acute flaccid paralysis.

One of the major problems with antivaccinationists is their need to see the world in black and white. In this case, sanitation vs no sanitation; but health involves a host of factors, one size doesn't fit all.

Some also claim that polio virus was basically harmless until DDT or arsenic used as pesticides; but the data, including timing and location just don't add up unless one cherry picks.

Basically, the world has become ever more complicated with people overwhelmed and looking for simplistic answers. At the same time, studies have found that around 80% of Americans do NOT understand science nor critical thinking. There are some great books that deals with this:

Christopher Toumey. Conjuring Science: Scientific Symbols and Cultural Meanings in American Life.

also: Michael Shermer. Why People Believe Weird Things.

If you get these, read them, and find them worthwhile, next time you see me posting on a blog, let me know, and I'd be happy to recommend additional books. Besides my training in epidemiology and biostatistics, I have degrees in Social Psychology and read a lot about Causal Inference, Decision Theory, and How People Perceive.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

Don’t give up hope, Broke Bot. There are techs who can work wonders, even with your extent of malfunction.

Yah. You weren't really intended to get that reference, although you might have been able to figure it out if you weren't, y'know, a dullard.

Yet another demonstration of your wholesale inability to respond to anything in a substantive fashion was, of course, predictable.

Arsenic has been shown to cause hind limb paralysis in the laboratory: British Medical Journal

Fuck off, Travis.

@197 (Rachel french)

Polio wasn't contagious like a virus should (sic).

Well, I don't know just how contagious a virus "should" be, but polio's basic reproduction number (R0) of 5-7 is similar to that of smallpox and rubella and greater than that of HIV, SARS and influenza, so that seems contagious enough to me. The evidence points towards the fact that you get your misinformation from wacky anti-vaccine web sites.

I think Travis is back...

"Rachel fremch"

organophosphates have been shown to cause leg paralysis

nothing wacky about organophosphate and arsenical paralysis

What a startling revelation! Organophosphates can cause paralysis? Who knew?

Look up the structure of Sarin.

If you can’t tell the difference between the symptoms caused by nerve gas versus polio . . . I have no words I’m willing to express on a public forum.

I'm sorry, I dIdn't see I typo'd "french" until after hitting Submit

You you seriously think that not one case of arsenical paralysis was diagnosed as ‘polio’?
On Arsenical Paralysis

Followed by a link to a 1893 description of acute arsenical poisoning, which was immediately recognised as such and never diagnosed as 'polio'? Is there any particular reason for this?

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

The straw is all yours, "Rachel french."

Can you tell me what the fluorine in Sarin does, and why Sarin causes paralysis?

(Hint: I'm like a lawyer. I'm not asking you a question to which I do not know the answer.)

Seen one acetylcholinesterase blocker, seen 'em all.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

It looks like Orac has wielded his ban hammer yet again on Travis Schwochert from Endeavor, Wisconsin.

herr doktor bimler, I'm willing to bet real money (or perhaps tasty beverages) that "Rachel french does not know what "acetyl" nor "choline" nor the suffix "-ase" mean.

And in the time it took to type my comment, a new sock has arisen.

Actually, HF is likely the leaving group.

Fail.

Tip: don't quibble terms with specialists in the field. Oh, wait, that's what you do for fun: you pretend you know more than you do.

"flip" who isn't:

I didn't offer to buy you a drink. The offer was for herr doktor bimler.

So, oh, knowlegable one, to what does the suffix "ace" from bimler's comment #204 by current number refer?

Hint: it's not the number one starter on a baseball team, nor a fighter pilot.

Fingers typed "ace" when I wanted "-ase." Ooops.

Sorry, I can't help you Chemmomo.... Orac's ban hammer has struck again.

Orac’s ban hammer has struck again.

Which is a good thing, although it does make me look like I'm talking to myself.

Oh, fear not. Travis is trying a bunch of other e-mail addresses tonight to impersonate people, some well known commenters. Thus far, he has failed, but stay frosty, my friends.

This guy's more annoying than Mabus. Well, to those of us who are just readers and not on the receiving end of death threats....

By The Very Rever… (not verified) on 02 Apr 2017 #permalink

Dachel ( AoA) posts a Newsweek article about the protest which had dozens of attendees with umbrellas.

re RJK jr's lifestyles ( he could just relax or suchlike)

I recently read that he and his wife, actress Cheryl Hines, were selling their home in (IIRC) Beverly Hills for 6 million USD.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

Mikey ( Natural News yesterday) predicts vaccine manufacturers creating a "massive false flag" outbreak of VPDs to scare parents into vaccinating.

He also predicts world financial collapse.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

In other news...

it appears that Gary Null is *still* off the air on WBAI.
( which probably means that his vitamin sales figures will drop)

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

On the subject of other blogs -

Jake has a post up about a "casting call for a program that’s been a BBC Series and is now coming to the USA called “Employable Me.” The program is about the great difficulty people with mental health and brain “differences” have in finding work."

Jake has offered his services as a cast member, despite, so far as I know, having never worked a day in his life, and indeed no evidence of ever having looked for a job. I don't doubt Jake, like Travis, will have trouble finding a job, but for both the reason is the same - their own words that they put out into the public domain. Mental health and brain “differences” don't enter into the discussion.

@ Travis or whatever name he is currently posting as:

You write: “Arsenic has been shown to cause hind limb paralysis in the laboratory: British Medical Journal and, perhaps also you or someone else, Chemmomo(?) writing:

“nothing wacky about organophosphate and arsenical paralysis”.

You probably don’t know what differential diagnosis is; but just as an example:

Polio develops rapidly, within a couple of days, and the damage is to the neurons in the anterior horn of the vertebrae and can result in total paralysis to the muscles served by the damaged nerves
Arsenic develops gradually, causes peripheral neuropathy and the lesion is in the sensory-motor axonopathy. If high-level of arsenic exposure, the onset of neuropathy may occur after 7 to 14 days.

Additional symptomatology separates the two. I couldn’t find the BMJ article; but doubt it would change anything.

In addition, the claims made by, among others, Age of Autism have numerous problems. First, not too long ago it was reported that rice from Texas had high levels of arsenic, so why aren’t there large numbers of cases of paralysis, given it was fed to lots of infants? Second, the Age of Autism based their claim on a report from an agricultural experimental station in Hawaii that arsenic would be good as a pesticide for the sugar cane industry. The report was from 1915 and Age of Autism would like to believe that it was responsible for the large number of cases of paralytic polio in New York and surrounding areas in 1916. There was a large outbreak of paralytic polio cases in New York in 1907, before arsenic was even considered as a pesticide. I have NOT been able to find any report as to exactly when arsenic began actually being used in Hawaii with sugar cane and it makes NO sense that if it had been used it would only have been sold in New York and surroundings, so why was there not large outbreaks at the same time in other areas of the US?

So tiresome that antivaccinationists find an article on arsenic and paralysis and jump to whatever conclusion fits their fantasy world.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

So tiresome that antivaccinationists find an article on arsenic and paralysis and jump to whatever conclusion fits their fantasy world.

Rather pathetic that so many people choose authoritarianism over logic. Ralph Scobey's 1952 article The Poison Cause of Poliomyelitis And Obstructions To Its Investigation is well-referenced and lays the case out nicely. This was originally published in the Archive Of Pediatrics and has a PubMed ID number of 14924801 (for Chris and Julian, who can't accept anything without a PubMed ID number).

By Black-cat (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Black-cat:

I have and have read Scobey's absurd article. Can't you come up with anything better than an obscure paper from over 70 years ago? The articles that were referenced are mainly irrelevant. This was before a lot of science had determined the differential diagnosis of polio vs other causes. There are many different forms of paralysis and without a differential diagnosis, one conflates them. In addition, numerous of his referenced articles clearly state that it could be a virus ingested with fruit, etc; but then he says no toxicological tests were run on the fruit eaten. One can use this approach on just about anything, that is, postulate something else. This is a waste of my time. Believe what you want. Do you really think that if he was on to something that, even if most disagreed, there would NOT be well-done up-to-date studies including spinal taps, post-mortems to find where the damaged nerves were, etc.?

I personally have well over 300 articles just on polio and almost a dozen books. How much have you read on polio? And I grew up prior to the vaccine. The number of cases of acute flaccid paralysis plummeted following introduction of the vaccine. If the cause was arsenic, DDT, lead, or something else, how do you explain the almost complete elimination of cases within a few years? The vaccine certainly didn't eliminate arsenic, etc. in the environment. In fact, as I wrote in an earlier comment, they have found high levels of arsenic in baby foods, etc. So, once again, why not an epidemic of acute flaccid paralysis? It is a reportable condition and the CDC lists far less than 200 cases per year. Given our population has doubled and the number of cases prior to the vaccine were, on average, 15,000, I think any rational person would attribute the change to the vaccine; but, then again, antivaccinationists aren't rational.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

Joel, by skimming that silly old opinion piece, it told me that Dr. Scobey was pretty much denying the roll of viral infections. And not just for polio.

@ Chris:

Yes, Scobey was denying it; but at the same time listing a number of studies that believed it was a viral infection and, as I said, Scobey then postulated toxins not investigated. But it doesn't matter because the number of cases of acute flaccid paralysis plummeted following the vaccine while lead from lead gas actually increased, DDT spraying continued at high levels until 1972, long after polio cases disappeared, and, as I wrote, arsenic is still a major problem. And, of course, that says it all about Scobey's denial of viral infections being responsible for diseases as measles and others also plummeted after the advent of a vaccine and the toxins continued.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 03 Apr 2017 #permalink

I note that there are no more editorial letters from Scobey after 1954. He seems to have gone silent once the first vaccines were proven to be effective.

It is just another case of cherry picking by anti-vaccine folks.

@ Brian #185

The risk of contracting mumps meningitis following natural mumps is recorded in the literature as 1 case per 400 cases and, at the outset, the risk of contracting the same following administration of a urabe containing vaccine, was recorded as 1 case per 100,000 doses. In contrasting those two sets of figures, it is clear that the vaccine is far, far less risky and much, much more favourable.

However, the various sets of laboratory confirmed data following the use of Urabe containing vaccines from the countries who used it, differ significantly, with a resultant impact on the comparative risk of contracting mumps meningitis between the natural infection and that which is vaccine induced.

The Canadian Diseases Weekly Report of 15th December 1990 records the rate of meningitis detected as 1 case per 62,000 doses, not near the originally estimate of 1 case in 100,000 but still favouring the vaccine.

Colville and Pugh in the UK published their findings in The Lancet (Vol 340, Sept,26th 1992 ) with a virilogically confirmed rate of 1 case per 3,800 doses. Again, very different to the original 1 in 100,000 doses stated at the outset, but still favouring the vaccine.

In the January 8th 1994 edition of The Lancet " Japan's troubles with measles-mumps-rubella vaccine", Japan reports on a rate of 1 case per 1044 vaccinations.
The transcript from a court case in Japan records one prefecture with a risk of 1 case in 184, making the risk in this particular circumstance, to be greater from the vaccine than naturally ocurring mumps infection.

It is clear that the risk in relation to urabe vaccines differed significantly from country to country and also between the different brands of vaccine used. With so many sets of lab confirmed data recording different risks, it is not possible to state unequivocally how the risk between Urabe vaccine induced infection and naturally ocurring infection, stacks up. up.

By Wendy Stephen (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Wendy Stephen:

First, if you read my article on Wakefield's book, Wrong About Vaccine Safety: A Review of Andrew Wakefield’s “Callous
Disregard” at: https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOVACJ/TOVACJ-6-9.pdf , the Japanese case was based on a vaccine whose manufacturer may not have followed protocol. In other words, it wasn't properly manufactured. One can make a case against anything and everything if one ignores this. And court decisions don't always reflect the best science (see Marcia Angell's book "Science on Trial". In addition, the Japanese stopped using MMR vaccine and suffered years of deaths in children, disabilities, and hospitalizations far in excess of any problems with the Urabe vaccine. Second, you have claimed that you are NOT anti vaccine; but over and over again focus on what occurred in the past. If you are pro-vaccine, the least you could do is say: "Yes, there may have been problems in the past; but the current MMR containing the Jeryl Lynn strain of mumps is an excellent vaccine and I would recommend it." As long as all you do is drag up the past, your claim you are not antivaccination lacks credibility. And aseptic meningitis is a benign condition. Benign doesn't mean without discomfort; but short-lived. Yes, you could probably dig up a case or two that became serious; but I could find cases of the common cold that became serious. And, both the risk of aseptic meningitis and the "seriousness" is higher from the natural mumps. And you ignore the many other sequelae from the natural disease not found from the vaccines. But keep it up, you are tiresome. I think you are obsessed with the Urabe?

However, as I wrote in another comment on another blog, I agreed with you that, given the review of your daughter's case where the review board said the vaccine likely caused her unilateral hearing loss, that they should have compensated her. I agree with you that they should not have a cut-off point of 60% disability. I agree for two reasons:

1. I believe as a society/community that we should do our best to help each and every person; but especially children
2. It is good public policy when vaccines are mandated to show that the government, despite the safety of vaccines, will help when rare adverse events occur.

As such, if you want, I can try to help. I have a number of contacts in the UK. I could ask them to contact their respective MPs and, perhaps, local newspapers. If you are interested, I need the actual complete decision on your daughter, Katie's case. I will attach to e-mails to my contacts and also attach the newspaper articles. So, if interested, you can send as attachment to me c/o Every Child By Two. You know their e-mail address.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ Wendy Stephen:

First, I would appreciate it when you give a reference to an article if you give a more complete reference. I had to search through the Lancet to find it, only to realize I already had it.

Second, exactly as I said, the article states: "However, the study revealed surprising findings. OMRC was found to have used unauthorized production techniques in the manufacture of its mumps vaccine. . . . This case encourage those opposing the vaccination program to apply pressure on MHW. Measles-mumps-rubella vaccinations rates . . . continued to decline." Etc. and as I wrote in my paper: Following withdrawal of the MMR vaccine, “the Ministry
for Health, Labour, and Welfare of Japan estimated the
number of mumps cases in Japan to be 2.26 million in 2001;
only 226 cases were reported in the USA in the same year”
[95]. In addition, The incidence of measles in Japan increased following withdrawal of the combined MMR vaccine in 1993 and continues to be a public health problem. In 1980, before
the combined MMR was available, over 13,000 cases of
measles were reported. This number decreased to below
3300 in 1990 shortly after introduction of the combined
MMR vaccine in 1989. In 2002, more than 30,000 cases
of measles were reported in Japan compared with <100
cases in the US. The death rate associated with measles
has ranged from 15 to 90 deaths annually. The true mortality
rate of measles disease in Japan is believed to be
higher due to inaccurate reporting of cause of death,
which is often listed as multi-organ failure or pneumonia
instead of measles [96].

So, a fraudulently manufactured vaccine and despite its problems, the result of kids not getting the MMR, despite the article pointing out that another version of mumps was made available by a reputable company, deaths and serious disabilities.

I own a car with airbags, thank goodness not the Takata. I know that some people have been harmed in minor traffic accidents by good airbags; but I also know that they save far more lives and reduce injuries, so I understand the difference between the Takata airbags and others and am not going to disconnect mine. You keep obsessing on the Urabe, drag up fraudulently manufactured case in Japan, and, I've never seen a comment by you where you say: "the current MMR vaccine with the Jeryl Lynn strain of mumps is an excellent vaccine and I recommend it."

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

JustaTech@47:

I once read a book about a B&B with a hole to hell int he basement. The hole talked to itself, and all its dialog was presented in BLOCK CAPS.

Tanya Huff's Summon the Keeper, perhaps?

By Jenora Feuer (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

Jenora @231: Yup, that's the book! And doesn't Heckenlively remind you of that furnace?

Joel @230: To further your analogy with airbags: I recently got a notification that my car may have a Takata airbag in the front passenger seat. I was told to NOT let anyone sit in that seat until I could get the airbag replaced, which the car company did for free.
So a problem was identified and the manufacturer fixed the problem at their own expense to keep me the consumer safe.

By JustaTech (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

@ JustaTech:

You write: "So a problem was identified and the manufacturer fixed the problem at their own expense to keep me the consumer safe."

Actually the manufacturer withheld reports for quite some time while more people died and were seriously injured. It was only after our government prosecuted them and fined them that they acted. However, the point I was making is to not conflate poorly manufactured products with those manufactured properly.

By Joel A. Harris… (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink

Joel: Yes, you're correct. And as far as I know the cost for the replacement was absorbed by the *car* manufacturer, not the airbag manufacturer.
But you're right: a correctly made airbag can be dangerous to some people in some situations, which is why kids are supposed to sit in the back, but save far more lives than they risk.
Incorrectly made airbags are dangerous to everyone and protect no one.

By JustaTech (not verified) on 04 Apr 2017 #permalink
I once read a book about a B&B with a hole to hell int he basement. The hole talked to itself, and all its dialog was presented in BLOCK CAPS.

Tanya Huff’s Summon the Keeper, perhaps?

Hey, I had a dream like that (minus the caps; deep voice instead) when I was around seven years old,* which well predates the book. Archetyke?

* I'm prety sure I hadn't seen Equinox on TV yet, in any event.